Wednesday, August 19, 2026

What Happens to Your Student’s IEP After High School?

Toby T Baker author of the best selling book The Traveling IEP talks about how to help kids succeed after high school as they move to college.

From the Cool Cat Teacher Blog by Vicki Davis

Subscribe to the 10 Minute Teacher Podcast and Cool Cat Teacher Talk anywhere you listen to podcasts.

So many students have IEPs but if we’re getting students ready for the “real world” we need to help them learn to self-advocate. Many may not realize that the rules governing learning disabilities in K-12 are not the same as college. Colleges can choose to say no to student needs. And it rests on the student to advocate.

Sponsored: Ellis, a program of Children’s Health Council, sponsored this podcast episode. All opinions are my own and that of the guest. Ellis pulls from a knowledge base on content from trusted partners like CAST, CASEL, Understood and others, and gives you evidence-aligned ideas for students who are struggling with learning, behavior, or the emotional side of school (but not clinical advice). If you’ve got a student (or two) who you can’t stop thinking about, try it and see what it brings you. No personally identifiable student information is collected, and it is a much better place to start than “brainstorming” with your general purpose AI chat tool. Try Ellis today.

Toby’s story is inspiring. She is open about her ADHD and how she was told not even to apply to college. Not only did she go to college, but she graduated with a 3.9 GPA and then earned her PhD so she could teach teachers. As the 2018 CHADD Educator of the Year, Toby not only is a great teacher, but she works to help teachers reach every student. In her bestselling book, The Traveling IEP, she shares her story and the advice parents and students need to navigate college and pursue their dreams of living a fulfilling, purposeful life, whether that leads to college or the business world. This is an important show for anyone who works with kids who learn differently, and that is pretty much all of us.

I was in the tracking of she’s never going to go to college. Well, here I sit with a PhD, but my guidance counselors were telling me, don’t even apply to college, you won’t get in.

Dr. Toby Tomlinson Baker, author of The Traveling IEP

Table of contents

Listen to the Show

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For US Educators: One Bill Worth Watching

The RISE Act (S. 3589) would require colleges to accept a student’s existing IEP, 504 plan, or prior evaluation as documentation, instead of families paying for a new private evaluation. It was reported out of the Senate HELP Committee on July 30, 2026 and placed on the Senate legislative calendar on August 5, 2026 — further than it has ever advanced. Toby presented policy briefs on an earlier version of this bill. Now, note that this is a different bill from the AI bill also called the RISE Act. (S. 2081) They are not the same thing.

Key Takeaways for Teachers and Parents from Dr. Toby Tomlinson Baker

  • The law changes the day they graduate. I learned this the hard way. I got my children retested because I thought it “carried over” to college. Well, in my experience, not really, because the college can choose to decline to accommodate even simple requests, like extended time. And when one of my dyslexic/dysgraphic children was required to handwrite a paper “because of AI” and then the prof went back and took points off the other papers, it was really disheartening. As Toby says, some of the best advocates for those with learning differences either have an LD or their children have one. I’ve lived this, and it is hard.
  • Colleges can say no. I know a student who struggled to get a notetaker. She had to learn to advocate for herself. Often, colleges WILL NOT allow parents to advocate for many reasons. It is vital that we listen to Toby on this one and help them become self-advocates who build relationships with professors.
  • Self-advocacy looks different for every student. Toby talks about the quiet students at the back of the classroom deserve advocacy as well. Theirs may look different but they need to learn to advocate for themselves.
  • Accommodation shouldn’t be viewed as an advantage. As I have often said, if a student has a broken leg, you don’t make them hop. You give them crutches (or a scooter in my case) But even then, they move slower than everyone else. The crutches just give hope and a little help so they can make it.

Resources Mentioned in This Episode

  • The Traveling IEP by Dr. Toby Tomlinson Baker — her Amazon #1 bestseller, part memoir and part practical guide to carrying accommodations from high school into college.
  • Extraordinary Minds by Howard Gardner — the book I open the show with. Gardner’s argument is that extraordinary individuals “are distinguished less by their impressive ‘raw powers’ than by their ability to identify their strengths and then to exploit them.”
  • Ellis — the free tool from Children’s Health Council that sponsored this week’s shows.
  • tobytomlinsonbaker.net — Dr. Baker’s site, where she lists her op-eds and policy writing.

About Dr. Toby Tomlinson Baker

Dr. Toby Tomlinson Baker, special education advocate and author of The Traveling IEP
Dr. Toby Tomlinson Baker

Dr. Baker has been a special educator for 13 years with the Los Angeles Unified School District and has been recognized a Top Performing Educator by the Superintendent. Dr. Baker has been recognized by Cal State-LA, Pepperdine Alumni Association, National Center Learning Disabilities in Washington D.C., the Learning Disability Association of America (LDA) and was the 2018 Children and Adults with ADHD-CHADD’s Educator of the Year. Dr. Baker was awarded the Top Education Policy Writer for the award-winning magazine Exceptional Needs Today and was on the cover with her story.

Dr Baker has written numerous Opinion Editorials and presented policy briefs to the Department of Education, National Organization of Disability, Congress, Tom Ridge Policy Group, Senator Robert Casey, who drafted the RISE Act, and the White House. She continues to share the story of her educational journey and her strategies for success in her Amazon #1 bestseller, The Traveling IEP!

Connect: LinkedIn · tobytomlinsonbaker.net

Free Resources for the IEP-to-College Transition

Every link below was checked and is free. I’ve split them by who they’re for, so you can send a counselor or a parent straight to their section.

How is your school helping students with learning differences be ready? This doesn’t mean that you stop accommodating; in the US, that is not legal. However, you can help students learn to self-advocate. Look through the resources tomorrow with your team and find something that works for your students. Go ahead and plan a self-advocacy activity for your seniors. Put it on your planning calendar.

For Teachers

  • Student Rubric for IEP Participation (I’m Determined, Virginia Dept. of Education) — a student scores themselves on how much they actually participate in their own IEP meeting, then gets a concrete next step. Fillable PDF. This is one you can use with your high school students and you may choose for this to come from those who work with the student and their special needs.
  • The One-Pager (I’m Determined) — one page where a student lists their Strengths, Preferences, Interests and Needs. It’s the document they hand a professor or a disability services office instead of a 30-page IEP. There’s a free web app too.
  • ME! Lessons for Teaching Self-Awareness and Self-Advocacy (Zarrow Center, University of Oklahoma) — ten units of lesson plans in Word and PowerPoint that you’re explicitly allowed to download, edit, and use free.
  • Self-Advocacy Strategy to Teach Student Involvement in the IEP (NTACT:C) — the research base behind teaching students to lead their own meetings, with the studies behind it.
  • Free Transition Assessments (VCU Center on Transition Innovations) — this annotated list helps prepare students for life after high school.

For Parents

  • Students with Disabilities Preparing for Postsecondary Education: Know Your Rights and Responsibilities (U.S. Department of Education, Office for Civil Rights) — the official explanation of exactly what Toby describes in this episode. It’s public domain, so you may copy it and hand it to anyone. (Revised 2011; I’m not sure if it will be updated but it should still be correct here.)
  • 7 Things to Know About College Disability Services (Understood) — the reality check. No case managers exist in college. Your student registers themselves. The accommodation letter goes to them, not to the professor.
  • Which Laws Do What: IDEA, Section 504, and the ADA (Understood) — the one-screen version of the legal handoff.
  • CEDAR Database (National Center for College Students with Disabilities) — direct contact information for the disability services office at nearly every college in the country. This is how you find the actual human to call before a campus visit. Note: this site is no longer being updated due to funding, but the directory is still live.
  • Preparing for Adulthood (PACER Center) — including what changes legally the day your child turns 18, which blindsides a lot of families.

For Students

One AI Prompt You Can Use Today

Paste this into whatever AI tool you use. The first is for the adult doing the research. I also drafted one for a student to ask the AI to be a “coach” on asking, but in the end, I really think this should be done with an adult or trusted advisor instead of AI so I struck that idea. As always, this is not intended to give any legal advice but to help you get started. Also remember to keep all PII (personally identifiable information OUT of AI.)

For parents and guidance counselors — researching a specific college:

I am helping a high school senior with an IEP for [DISABILITY/LEARNING DIFFERENCE] prepare to attend [COLLEGE NAME]. In high school their accommodations include [LIST ACCOMMODATIONS].

I understand that IDEA no longer applies in college and that the school operates under the ADA and Section 504 instead, which means accommodations must be requested rather than provided automatically.

Help me build a preparation checklist that covers:
1. What documentation this college is likely to require, and how recent it must be
2. The exact steps to register with their disability services office, and when to start
3. Which of the accommodations listed above are commonly granted at the college level, which are commonly denied, and why
4. Ten specific questions to ask the disability services office on a campus visit
5. What the student — not the parent — will need to do themselves, and what that means for FERPA once they turn 18

Tell me clearly which of your answers are general to all colleges and which I must verify directly with this specific school. Do not guess at this college's individual policies. Include hyperlinks to all information that you find. If something does not have a hyperlink, verify the information.

Other Shows for Teachers Supporting Students Who Learn Differently

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Episode Transcript

This transcript was generated using AI and has been reviewed by humans for accuracy. Minor errors or artifacts may remain but I worked my best to find any issues with the transcript as I reviewed the show. – Vicki

Click to read the full transcript

Vicki Davis (00:00): Howard Gardner, in his book, Extraordinary Minds, says exceptional individuals have a special talent for identifying their own strengths and weaknesses. We want to help our students be exceptional as they transition from high school to college. But what happens when students who have a weakness have to advocate for themselves in college? Did you know that when a student with a learning difference graduates from high school and enrolls in college, according to the law, the accommodations that were required in high school become accommodations they have to ask for in college, and the university is allowed to say no.

If you work with or have a child with a learning difference, this is must-have advice.

Announcer (00:46): This is the 10-Minute Teacher Podcast with your host, Vicki Davis.

Vicki Davis (00:50): Today’s show is sponsored by Ellis, a free tool from Children’s Health Council that helps teachers think through tough student moments and find practical next steps. Tune in at the end of the show and I’ll tell you more about Ellis. Today we’re talking with Dr. Toby Tomlinson Baker, a nationally recognized special education expert. She earned her Ph.D. in global leadership and change from Pepperdine University and is an adjunct professor at California State University, Los Angeles.

And Dr. Baker is the best-selling author of The Traveling IEP. Toby, how has your own experience as an educator with a disability shaped your perspective?

Dr. Toby Tomlinson Baker (01:38): As a child, in about 1987, I was diagnosed with a learning disability. In my 40s, I was diagnosed with ADHD because in the 80s, many women can attest to this. They weren’t diagnosed with ADHD. They were just little bubbly girls and talked a lot.

My experience as. Student with a learning disability and ADHD, I make connections with the students right on. I’ve done that. I was the one that teachers didn’t want to have on their list.

I was the one who needed extra help. Lectures didn’t work for me. I needed visuals. I’ve collected strategies that teachers need to employ these in their classrooms.

I went to six different schools, K through 12. So every other year, I went to a new school. Now looking back, what it taught me was I was privy to all different types of teachers. So I was able to see the good teachers, the teachers that did hands-on learning, student-centered learning, spatial learning.

And then there were some who were straight in rows, looking at the front, parochial school. There were different types of learning environments. I learned to advocate at a very young age because if I needed help with something, I had to either go to my parents who would then go to the teachers who, if they didn’t listen, then they had to go from the teachers to the administrators and the administrators to the superintendent. And it was like a whole thing.

This is why I wrote The Traveling IEP is because. What happens in the law after you graduate from high school, yes, you still have an IEP, but when you go right from high school and enroll in a college, the national law switches from IDEA coverage to, ADA coverage so the laws actually change for the coverage when you go to college so when I went to college I went from having all these supports to all these little layers and so it was much different and that was why in my heart I had to, I had to write The Traveling IEP, I have met so many parents, wonderful parents who reach out to me every day thanking me, for my story because it’s a memoir. And now we’ve got assistive technology and all of these things that we can use. We need to show the parents and the teachers together how are the students going to move from elementary school, middle school, high school, and then into college.

And then if they choose not to go to college, what are they going to do instead as adults?

Vicki Davis (04:18): One thing I work really hard to teach the parents of the students I teach who have learning differences is that our goal is to help our students advocate for themselves because they won’t be able to put their parent in their backpack. And what do you tell them to do so they can learn to advocate?

Dr. Toby Tomlinson Baker (04:37): Some of the things that I did to advocate for myself and then I teach others how to advocate. When I met professors, oftentimes I was 17, 18, 19 years old, and here’s a 50-year-old man telling me that they’re going to give me a grade. And I had to figure out how I was going to communicate my needs, my accommodation. So do you know what your accommodations are?

I needed to sit right up front. So I would have to sit and write in the in a notebook and then we would go to the library and I’d copy my friend’s notes or sometimes I had an actual tape recorder and we had to um, I had to go to the dean by myself at 17 or 18 or 19 and say, this is what I need. How are we going to make this happen? So not everybody is articulate as me.

I’m a little bit feisty. And a lot of it is personality differences. Sometimes you have students sit in the back of the classroom because that’s where they’re most comfortable or they’re shy and introverted. And that’s OK.

They won’t necessarily go to the dean and get in their face a little bit. They won’t go to office hours. They won’t go somewhere early. Maybe they sleep in because they really need the sleep.

So these are just things that I think about when they’re advocating. What does advocacy really look like? It’s different for everybody.

Vicki Davis (06:03): One thing, and this just comes from working with my own children, is that you’re not asking for a gimme. You still got to do the work. You still got to show up. You still got to come to class.

You’re going to study more than everybody else because that’s just a fact. You’ve got to. And so learning how to professionally, respectfully advocate, what are some of the most common misconceptions and misunderstandings that educators and sometimes even parents might have about kids with learning differences?

Dr. Toby Tomlinson Baker (06:33): When I did my dissertation at Pepperdine, I interviewed professors and did just what you said. What do you know about special education law and, you know, changing your style a little bit? Two of the things that I found, one, 100% of them did not know special education law. Nobody goes and studies case law.

They get their schedules together, their books together, their itinerary. They don’t go look at the disability. They should, but they don’t always go look at the disability law. And the other thing is what I found was the professors that did know something about disabilities and were really engaged with their students with learning differences was that they themselves had learning differences.

Some of the professors had learning differences themselves. One of them had dyslexia. Then also they had kids with learning differences themselves. So they had kids at home who had IEPs.

So they were able to transfer that knowledge of what they had learned at home or in school to their college setting. But that doesn’t always happen. it. So I said, what accommodations?

They had no idea. They said, well, I just do whatever the accessibility office requires. So I They lean very, very heavily on use the college. There’s this toss between use the college and the professor.

If I don’t know, I don’t have to do it. So I was very much like, you need training. You need to ask.

Vicki Davis (08:07): The Traveling IEP, your book, is a bestseller. So how do you think it has changed the way that educators and parents approach IEP?

Dr. Toby Tomlinson Baker (08:17): Well, one of the resources that I offer, I have this wonderful visual that I came up with in the book and also in my research that’s published. When you think of an IEP, I can’t even tell you how many IEPs I’ve written in my life. That’s why I wrote about IEPs because I’ve been doing this since 2004. They represent a person.

So when somebody says there are too many IEPs, well, are there too many students with learning differences? No, they have learning differences. They need these accommodations. That’s part of it is it is individualized.

I always say in my class that when I was teaching, I had what we call a special day class. I don’t just have one lesson or two lessons. I had 15 lessons. How many kids there are?

That’s how many lessons you have. So the thing about the IEP is, In high school, K through 12, you have this accommodation as free appropriate public education. However, because the law changes in college, they are not transferred. And so what are the accommodations that you have under the IDEA law are not applicable in college.

They do not always transfer. So when a student goes to college and says, I need note-taking and this and that, the university has the right to say no.

Vicki Davis (09:44): It’s heartbreaking because they’re not required and it’s a fight. Some people want to act like you’re giving kids an unfair disadvantage when you give them accommodations. But if you had somebody with a broken leg, you wouldn’t make them hop. You would at least give them crutches.

And even with crutches, they’re not going to go as fast as a person who has both legs. But they at least have a hope of getting one direction to another, even with more effort. It’s unfair to ask them to hop when you could give them crutches. What are you hearing from people?

Dr. Toby Tomlinson Baker (10:17): One of the things that I always convey to parents, and this is why they keep coming and buying my book and meeting me, is I struggled with the fact that the age-old question, am I smart? When I was a kid, they did tracking. They still do some sort of tracking. People who don’t know what tracking is, tracking is when you’re in school, they sort of sort out who’s smart, who’s gifted, who’s maybe has a learning difference, needs to have an assessment.

They have to assess for giftedness too. And before you can be diagnosed by a school psychologist or a licensed psychologist, once you’re diagnosed. I was in the tracking of she’s never going to go to college. Well, here I sit with a PhD, but my guidance counselors were telling me, don’t even apply to college, you won’t get in.

Well, I said, thank you very much and some other wonderful things and went and applied and got into college and graduated with a 3.9. Yeah. So I have told my parents, my students, all of them when I speak and I tell you here today, don’t let anybody tell you what you can and can’t do. That’s right.

You decide what you’re going to do. I decided I was going to go to college, get a Ph.D. and teach college. And here I sit doing that, even though nobody thought I was ever going to graduate from high school. They didn’t think I could graduate from high school.

They didn’t think I’d go on and go to college. Oh, she’ll never get a job. I hope she marries well. That was something else.

Oh, you better get married or somebody will take care of you. Well, I just happen to make a lot of money at my job and I do very well. Thank you. So when I hear people say because they have a learning difference, they’ll never be able to.

And I’m like, don’t let anybody tell you. You don’t tell people that they aren’t smart. I am smart. I know I am.

What inspires students with learning differences or even just in general? What do they really want to do? What can they contribute? Because once they get that, if they’re struggling in school, they can hyper-focus.

I hyper-focus. When I have 42 IEPs to write, I got to boom, boom, boom, get them done. Schedule it out, and I’ve got stickies and post-its, and I’ve been doing it for years. That’s my masterpiece.

Vicki Davis (12:43): Somebody listening to this show needs to be hearing what you’re saying, Toby, about they told me not to go to college, and I went and doggone it, I have my PhD and doggone it, I didn’t need anybody to take care of me. I’m taking care of myself. Like, that’s a message.

Dr. Toby Tomlinson Baker (12:58): When I join my class for my sessions that I teach, I tell them I have, you know, ADHD. I was diagnosed. I tell them my story. I’m like, you know what?

I’m okay with me and I want this to be a safe space for learning. All of a sudden, these other students who had registered with the Office of Accessibility, Oh, professor, I do too. And really, teachers need to think, how can I change me so that all students can learn? You need a connection, the student-teacher connection.

That’s what it is.

Vicki Davis (13:32): I always say you have to relate to educate. You have to relate to educate. That’s what underlies great learning is relationship. It’s about belief that every human has something to contribute.

I call my classroom Masterpiece Theater. I tell kids that each person has unique talents and skills and facets of their personality that they can just really shine. And who are we to disparage another human being? The book is The Traveling IEP, a best-selling book about helping improve individualized education plans.

Look at the show notes, follow Toby, learn what she does, pick up the book, and advocate, advocate, advocate, and believe in your children. Thank you, Ellis, for sponsoring this week’s shows on The 10-Minute Teacher. Ellis is a free tool for K-12 educators from the Children’s Health Council. Here’s how it works.

You type in what actually happened with a student, what you saw, what you already tried, and where you’re stuck. Then Ellis gives you practical, evidence-aligned next steps from a knowledge base of content from trusted partners like CAST, CASEL, Understood, and others. Ellis gives you information, not clinical advice, and it doesn’t collect personally identifiable student information. It’s a far better place to start than general purpose AI tools because Ellis isn’t pulling from the open internet.

So the next time you leave school still thinking about that one student, go to coolcatteacher.com forward slash Ellis. That’s coolcatteacher.com forward slash Ellis. Thanks for tuning in to the 10-Minute Teacher Podcast. Watch the video version of this podcast and catch my new radio and TV show, Cool Cat Teacher Talk, on YouTube and a radio or TV station near you.

Join my Cool Cat Teacher Classroom Matters newsletter at coolcatteacher.com forward slash newsletter. Leave a review if you found this helpful. See you later, educator.

Disclosure of Material Connection: This is a sponsored episode and blog post. Ellis, a program of Children’s Health Council, has compensated me to share information about Ellis. However, all opinions expressed are my own. I have personally reviewed these resources and only recommend tools I believe offer genuine value to classroom teachers. My endorsement is limited to the educational products and services discussed in this episode. I am disclosing this in accordance with the Federal Trade Commission’s 16 CFR, Part 255: “Guides Concerning the Use of Endorsements and Testimonials in Advertising.” The sponsor has no impact on the editorial content of this show. This post also contains affiliate links to books mentioned in the episode; if you choose to buy, I may be paid a commission at no additional cost to you.

What Happens to Your Student's IEP After High School? Episode 972 with Dr. Toby Tomlinson Baker on the 10 Minute Teacher Podcast

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Tuesday, August 18, 2026

Free Teacher-Facing AI for Behavior and Learning

From the Cool Cat Teacher Blog by Vicki Davis

Subscribe to the 10 Minute Teacher Podcast and Cool Cat Teacher Talk anywhere you listen to podcasts.

Many people are using AI for decision-making. Here’s the problem with that when you’re a teacher. We have PII (personally identifiable information) that we should not have anywhere near AI. Additionally, when we talk about research-based best practices but use general-purpose AI tools like ChatGPT, we are effectively throwing them out and not drawing on trusted sources. This is a problem, as many teachers don’t know how to train AI, and if so, there are too many sources to add to public-facing AI in order to give the resources we need.

Sponsored: Ellis, a program of Children’s Health Council, sponsored this podcast episode. All opinions are my own and that of the guest. Ellis pulls from a knowledge base of content from trusted partners like CAST, CASEL, Understood and others, and gives you evidence-aligned ideas for students who are struggling with learning, behavior, or the emotional side of school (but not clinical advice).

If you’ve got a student (or two) who you can’t stop thinking about, try it and see what it brings you. No personally identifiable student information is collected, and it is a much better place to start than “brainstorming” with your general-purpose AI chat tool. Try Ellis today.

Try Ellis (it’s free!)

We’ve been talking about and sharing teacher-facing AI tools recently because, for now, that is where I think some of the most successful uses of AI in the classroom are. So, if you’re struggling, I suggest you check out Ellis, the tool we talk about on today’s show. This tool integrates an AI chat with a powerful prompting method and trusted resources of information about how to reach and help kids, to give teachers ideas for their classroom. I’d start here instead of regular AI. And it is free. On today’s show, Natalie Tamburello talks about the development of this tool and how it is working. It can help you understand teacher-facing AI and the tools being developed by nonprofits and research organizations to help teachers draw on reliable resources rather than the open Internet.

They’re (teachers are) not short on care. They’re short on time, steady support, and clear next steps in moments when students need them most.

Natalie Tamburello, Community Engagement Manager, Children’s Health Council

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Watch on YouTube and subscribe for new episodes every week.

AI Vocabulary from This Episode

  • Teacher-facing AI — AI that is for the teacher to use. The teacher may use it to create personalized content for students, but the generative AI use stays with the teacher. Natalie is direct about why Ellis was built this way: “that’s also why Ellis is teacher-facing and not student-facing. We don’t need more kids in front of screens.” (We first defined this one with Todd Brekhus in Keeping the Teacher at the Center of Classroom AI.)
  • RAG (Retrieval Augmented Generation) — when an AI answers from a specific set of documents you give it rather than from the whole internet, and shows you the sources. Natalie’s words in this episode: “instead of scraping the entirety of the internet to get a response, we have a pool of resources from vetted partners.”
  • Grounding — constraining an AI to an approved set of sources so it answers from those instead of from whatever it absorbed during training. “Ellis isn’t trained on the open internet.” This is the question to ask any AI vendor: what is this grounded in?
  • Prompt Scaffolding (Slot Filling) — when a tool walks you through a guided sequence of questions instead of handing you a blank box. Ellis asks what the student’s strengths are before it asks what is wrong, and teachers told Natalie that answering that question changed how they saw the child before they ever got a response. Prompt scaffolding is the plain-English name, borrowed from educational scaffolding; slot filling is the technical name for the mechanic underneath — the system has required fields and keeps asking until they are filled.
  • Guardrails — rules built into a tool that stop it from going somewhere it should not. Ellis shuts the conversation down entirely on anything touching suicidal ideation or self-harm and points you to your reporting procedures as a mandated reporter. Ask what a tool’s guardrails are before you hand it a student situation.
  • PII Redaction — automatically stripping personally identifiable information out of what you typed. If you paste in a BIP or an IEP and a name slips through, Ellis removes it. That is not something a general-purpose chatbot does for you.

Teacher-facing AI and RAG are already in my AI vocabulary list. Grounding, prompt scaffolding, guardrails, and PII redaction are not yet — I will add them as soon as I hit publish on this post. You can grab the whole list in my AI Vocabulary List, and let students review the terms with Spy the AI (a free AI vocabulary game I vibe-coded from that same list.)

Key Takeaways for Teachers from Natalie Tamburello

  • RAG – retrieval-augmented generation is a method of training an AI tool that pulls resources into the tool. This method lets you vet resources and create a smaller pool of resources to train an AI tool (but often much larger than you can use to train your typical public-facing AI tool)
  • Prompt scaffolding guides a person to add essential information rather than expecting them to remember what to include. These prompts start with student strengths. Teachers told her that just filling in the scenario changed how they thought about the child before they ever got an answer..
  • Know exactly where the line is. Ellis supports classroom decision-making, not clinical decision-making. It does not diagnose, assess, or provide therapy, and anything touching suicidal ideation or self-harm shuts the conversation down and routes you to your reporting procedures as a mandated reporter. Knowing where the line is on all tools we use is vital and this is another way that this tool lis different.

Ellis can be used with a class situation or individual students (without names, of course). If you have a situation, go to askellis.org and sign up for a free account. If you have someone who works with you, do this together. Find suggestions and determine something new to try. Then, come back to the tool. When you are done, discuss the process but also discuss the use of AI and how this is different from regular “chat” tools. Compare the things you can and cannot do in Ellis versus a regular public-facing AI tool.

Resources Mentioned in This Episode

  • Ellis — the free teacher-facing tool from Children’s Health Council. Create an account, then start either an individual student scenario or a classroom scenario.
  • Children’s Health Council — the Palo Alto nonprofit that built, owns, and operates Ellis.
  • CAST — universal design for learning; designing a classroom that is accessible to every student. One of Ellis’s content partners.
  • CASEL — the Collaborative for Academic, Social, and Emotional Learning. Content partner.
  • Understood — resources for families raising kids with learning and attention differences. Content partner.
  • Ensemble Learning — supports multilingual learners and the schools that serve them. Content partner.
  • Learning Ally and the National Center for Learning Disabilities — two organizations Natalie has worked with.

About Natalie Tamburello – Bio as Submitted

Natalie Tamburello of Children's Health Council on teacher-facing AI for behavior and learning
Natalie Tamburello, Community Engagement Manager, Children’s Health Council

Natalie Tamburello, MPhil, is a learning disability and education equity advocate dedicated to helping students who learn differently navigate school, work, and life transitions. As Community Engagement Manager at Children’s Health Council in Palo Alto, she develops programs and partnerships supporting students, families, educators, and professionals. She has collaborated with Learning Ally, Understood, the National Center for Learning Disabilities, and Parents Education Network. Natalie holds a BA from Whitman College and an MPhil from the University of Cambridge.

Connect with Natalie: LinkedIn · chconline.org

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Episode Transcript

This transcript was generated using AI and has been reviewed by humans for accuracy. Minor errors or artifacts may remain but I worked my best to find any issues with the transcript as I reviewed the show. – Vicki

Click to read the full transcript

Vicki Davis (00:00): Tech Tool Tuesday, Episode 971. Today, we’ll talk about better ways to create teacher-facing AI built on best practices that really can help you with behavior in the classroom.

Announcer (00:13): This is the 10-Minute Teacher Podcast with your host, Vicki Davis.

Vicki Davis (00:14): Today’s show is sponsored by Ellis, a free resource from Children’s Health Council that helps teachers think through tough student moments and find practical next steps. Today’s guest is Natalie Tamburello, a learning disability and education equity advocate at Children’s Health Council, the nonprofit organization behind Ellis. All opinions on today’s show are my own.

Vicki Davis (00:45): Natalie Tamburello is Community Engagement Manager at the Children’s Health Council in Palo Alto and a learning disability and education equity advocate. She holds a degree from Cambridge and has worked with Understood, Learning Ally, and the National Center for Learning Disabilities.

Natalie, one problem that teachers are facing right now is that they have students with mental health issues. They have students with learning differences, and a lot of them are turning just to regular old AI, or to talk to other teachers, and that can help some. But why is everything falling short of what we’re seeing right now in the classroom?

Natalie Tamburello (01:22): Vicki, exactly what you just said. Educators are really inundated right now. They’re not short on care. They’re short on time, steady support, and clear next steps in moments when students need them most. And many teachers, I think, enter the profession because of the relationships that they can build with students.

I think over the past decade, and especially since COVID, those relationships have become a lot harder to protect because of a lot of competing priorities. Students are coming to school with much more complex learning and behavior and emotional needs. Educators are being asked to respond to anxiety, depression, learning differences, attendance challenges, classroom disruptions, academic pressure, all at the same time. For many teachers, they’ve never received the training to handle those types of challenges. And we really don’t think it’s reasonable to continue to ask educators to do all of that thinking and then carry all of that work alone.

But often colleagues are stretched thin. A counselor may have, you know, over 300 students on their caseload. A learning specialist is more focused on students who are already identified, or a Tier 3 student.

Even now, as GPTs become more popular, they go online or they go ask an AI, how can I help this student? Or even on social media. But what they find is not specific enough, practical enough, grounded enough to use in the moment. And they have no idea whether they can trust it.

Vicki Davis (02:45): Issue with just general large language models like ChatGPT is that they weren’t trained on whether information was accurate or not. We talk about research-based best practices, but if we’re using regular old AI chat, we’re not getting that.

Today, you work with Ellis, a tool that the Children’s Health Council has created. So under the hood, how is this different from going to a regular ChatGPT or Claude or Gemini?

Natalie Tamburello (03:16): So the difference with Ellis, there’s two things. There’s a difference in how it’s built, and then there’s also a difference in the product itself and how it gets answers for you.

We use what we call a RAG, which is a Retrieval Augmented Generation. That’s what it stands for. So instead of scraping the entirety of the internet to get a response, we have a pool of resources from vetted partners who have expertise in the LD and mental health fields, that are all nonprofit organizations just like ours, to ensure a really accurate response.

Ellis isn’t trained on the open internet. It’s specifically when you ask a question of Ellis, the system searches a curated library of really trusted resources that humans have vetted and that we have partnered with. And what’s really great about this is that there’s a lot of amazing organizations that exist out there, but have really amazing resources. And so this is a way of getting that kind of content that might not be accessible.

Children’s Health Council, we have our own content. That’s the organization that’s built Ellis and owns and operates Ellis. And Understood, which is an organization that focuses primarily on parents and supporting them through their journey of having students with learning and attention differences. CAST is an organization that works on universal design for learning and making sure that you design a classroom to be accessible for all students. And then CASEL is another one that people might recognize, which is a social-emotional learning. We also have Ensemble Learning, which is for students who are learning English as a second language. I mean, there’s a lot of different partners that we have.

Vicki Davis (04:47): So we have these resources in there. So I’ve tested it out and I took in a student situation, typed in the information that I have. So if I type in the information about a student — obviously, I’m not going to put their name or anything — if somebody’s using Ellis or really any tool, do you have guidelines for how the teacher should type in information to get these ideas?

Natalie Tamburello (05:09): Yeah. The other way that Ellis is different from AIs is that it walks you through a strengths-based prompt process. So teachers have actually told us that even the act of inputting a scenario, before even receiving a response, has changed how they were thinking about the student, because teachers are often coming to use Ellis at a time where they’re pretty frustrated, right? And rightly so.

One of the first three questions that is asked is, what are the student’s strengths? And so really trying to reframe your thinking about the student’s strengths. And that also helps Ellis respond and give suggestions and strategies that are based in that student’s strength rather than their weaknesses. There is a prompt process, which is also helpful, but is very different from another AI, that really leads you through the process where it’s not really relying on you inputting the information. It really guides you through that process.

We do guide them not to share any personal identifiable information about the student. But if you happen to do that — say you’re copying over a BIP or an IEP and a name slips through — Ellis automatically removes that. So personal identifiable information is protected. Again, not something that another AI might do.

Vicki Davis (06:19): Okay, so we have better protection. I like how it’s really guiding us through the prompts. And when you’re frustrated, you may or may not remember those things. Let’s go through a typical scenario.

Natalie Tamburello (06:30): One of the things I’m really privileged to do is to be one of the main people who speaks to a lot of our users. So I have a lot of conglomeration of stories and anecdotes to share with individual teachers.

The first thing that they’ve said — and pretty much every teacher I’ve talked to has said this when they’ve inputted a scenario — it feels very validating and very relieving. I think they’re worried that Ellis is going to come back with all of these strategies that they’ve never seen before. And that’s not true. Usually you’ve tried some of the things that Ellis has suggested. So it’s that immediate validation, and then feeling really confident that you have a plan moving forward.

So what’s also very different about Ellis is that it has an action plan built into it. So instead of just a text response that you might get from another AI, there’s an action plan that goes week by week that’s customizable based off whatever strategies that you select, and you can track your progress through that. So it feels doable and actionable. So that’s another thing that teachers have really mentioned.

And another story that I can share — when we designed Ellis, one of our biggest concerns when working with an AI is that a lot of AI, and the criticism around AI, is that it isolates people even more. People become more and more siloed, and we didn’t want Ellis to do that. We wanted Ellis to encourage collaboration. And although Ellis is built as individual accounts for teachers that are free, we are seeing teachers using it collaboratively. They are mainly using it with teacher teams like MTSS teams, or through coaching, or learning specialists are using it with a teacher to help create some neutral common ground, especially when there’s differing opinions. So that’s been really amazing to see. Like, we knew we were going to be successful with Ellis, or we were doing the right thing, is if people started using it in a collaborative way — even though the tool currently isn’t built to be used collaboratively.

Vicki Davis (08:21): What are some things that a teacher cannot expect Ellis to do?

Natalie Tamburello (08:24): We draw a really clear line. Ellis supports classroom decision-making, not clinical decision-making. And it doesn’t diagnose, it doesn’t assess, it doesn’t provide therapy. It really specifically shows classroom-grounded strategies that can be implemented. It will not create an evaluation. And if there’s anything related to suicidal ideation or self-harm, we immediately shut down the conversation and direct you to proper reporting procedures as a mandated reporter.

And when I’ve talked to teachers about, oh, what kind of training did you receive as you were getting your teaching credential? They say, well, maybe I had a semester in learning disabilities or mental health while I was getting that credential. And then when they actually show up in the classroom as a general education teacher, they realize, well, I’m teaching all different types of kids, and I have to be able to at least triage a little bit and manage that classroom, because not every single kid with an IEP or 504 is getting pulled out all the time to be handled by someone else. And so developing your skills as an educator is really important. It’s completely separate from clinical advice.

Vicki Davis (09:31): Now, how do you answer that question of those who say, I’m opposed to all AI being used in anything with student behavior, mental health, or learning differences?

Natalie Tamburello (09:42): Yeah, I would say your skepticism is healthy. I think I would probably agree with a lot of the skeptics out there. Student mental health is way too important to hand over to AI, and that is not what Ellis was designed to do. And that’s also why Ellis is teacher-facing and not student-facing. We don’t need more kids in front of screens. And at the end of the day, every decision still belongs to the teacher.

Ellis is there to make trusted knowledge easier to access and more actionable. So you know that you have reputable strategic strategies to try. A lot of this is a lot harder to access than you would anticipate. And we’re able to uplift organizations that you wouldn’t necessarily see or recognize. Also, everything in Ellis is cited. And you can click on them, you can share them, you can save them.

Vicki Davis (10:28): So Natalie, a teacher struggling — what can they do right now to get into Ellis? Can they get started right now?

Natalie Tamburello (10:36): Yeah, you can go to askellis.org, create an account. The account creation process is pretty quick. And then once you’ve done that, you can start a scenario. You have the ability to start an individual scenario if you have a particular challenge that you’re having with an individual student, but then you can also do a classroom scenario. So if you’re having a classroom dynamic or challenge — and it shouldn’t take you more than a few minutes to get a response, depending on how much you give Ellis. If you give Ellis quite a bit, it’s going to take a little bit longer of your time. But it should be really self-explanatory. We created Ellis so that it was really easy for you all to use.

For me, it’s really personal. And I think anyone listening can identify with the experience of having a really amazing teacher. I’m dyslexic. I also have experienced anxiety as a student. And I can remember teachers who made a real difference in my life. And it was not because of a lesson plan or a test, unfortunately — I think a lot of teachers would love that — but it was because they took the time to understand what I needed in a challenging moment and had the grace and the humility to adjust their approach.

And I’m sure we can all think of a teacher that impacted our trajectory. And it was likely at a time when you were not at your best, whether you had a mental health challenge or a learning difference or not, and they knew what to do to encourage you forward. And it’s that kind of relationship that can really change a student’s trajectory and experience of school. And that’s something that AI cannot replace. But I hope — we hope — that Ellis helps facilitate more of those moments.

And whether you use Ellis or not, I think taking a moment to be curious before being corrective, and thinking about how you can grow as an educator and develop your skills by learning from your students and with them as they’re going through some challenges.

Vicki Davis (12:24): This has been a fantastic conversation with Natalie Tamburello, Community Engagement Manager at the Children’s Health Council. And we’ve been talking about Ellis. They are a nonprofit organization. And this is really, Natalie, I think, where we need to be heading — with more highly vetted teacher-facing resources that do use AI to do what it does well, which is pull together a lot of information, but then do what we humans can do very well, which is accurately vet all of this wealth of resource so that we can do a better job. So thanks for coming on the show.

Vicki Davis (13:04): That was Natalie Tamburello from Children’s Health Council, and today’s show was sponsored by Ellis. Ellis is free for teachers. You describe a real situation with a real student, and Ellis answers from a knowledge base of content from trusted partners like CAST, CASEL, Understood, and others. Ellis gives you information, not clinical advice. It doesn’t collect personally identifiable student information.

I’ve spent the drive home thinking about that one student. When I went to Ellis and put in what happened, it gave me some great ideas to try. I was impressed with the suggestions it gave me. If that’s you, go to coolcatteacher.com forward slash Ellis. That’s coolcatteacher.com forward slash Ellis. It’s free!

Vicki Davis (13:57): Thanks for tuning in to the 10-Minute Teacher Podcast. Watch the video version of this podcast and catch my new radio and TV show, Cool Cat Teacher Talk, on YouTube and a radio or TV station near you. Join my Cool Cat Teacher Classroom Matters newsletter at coolcatteacher.com forward slash newsletter. Leave a review if you found this helpful. See you later, educator.

Disclosure of Material Connection: This is a sponsored episode and blog post. Ellis, a program of Children’s Health Council, has compensated me to share information about Ellis. However, all opinions expressed are my own. I have personally reviewed these resources and only recommend tools I believe offer genuine value to classroom teachers. My endorsement is limited to the educational products and services discussed in this episode. I am disclosing this in accordance with the Federal Trade Commission’s 16 CFR, Part 255: “Guides Concerning the Use of Endorsements and Testimonials in Advertising.” The sponsor has no impact on the editorial content of this show.

Free Teacher-Facing AI for Behavior and Learning with Natalie Tamburello, episode 971 of the 10 Minute Teacher Podcast

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Monday, August 17, 2026

Teaching Kids Boundaries: What to Say in the Moment

From the Cool Cat Teacher Blog by Vicki Davis

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Boundaries. I wish I had learned more earlier. How to say no. How not to be steamrolled. How to be more sensitive to others when I was not listening. All these things. Today’s guest, Ashley Bendiksen, has moved from reactive counseling to prevention of trauma by writing a book that caregivers and parents can read with children about boundaries.

Sponsored: Ellis, a program of Children’s Health Council, sponsored this podcast episode. All opinions are my own and that of the guest. Ellis pulls from a knowledge base on content from trusted partners like CAST, CASEL, Understood and others, and gives you evidence-aligned ideas for students who are struggling with learning, behavior, or the emotional side of school (but not clinical advice).

If you’ve got a student (or two) who you can’t stop thinking about, try it and see what it brings you. No personally identifiable student information is collected, and it is a much better place to start than “brainstorming” with your general-purpose AI chat tool. Try Ellis today.

Try Ellis (it’s free!)

She also rehearses words we can use with kids as we work to help kids learn not only how to “get along” but how to respect each other. And yes, of course, we talk about teacher boundaries too. Many of us teachers struggle with pleasing and not saying no. (This took me at least 15 years to learn how to do wisely and well and it was 15 years too long!) So, this conversation will help teachers of all ages but especially those working with littles. It will be useful for parents as well.

This conversation touches on dating abuse and domestic violence. If you or a student needs help right now: the National Domestic Violence Hotline is 1-800-799-7233 (TTY 1-800-787-3224). For teens and young adults, love is respect is 1-866-331-9474, or text LOVEIS to 22522. Both are free and available 24/7.

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Key Takeaways for Teachers from Ashley Bendiksen

  • Boundaries are not just physical. They can be emotional and social too. Interestingly, Ashley says that teens who hear her dating violence talk come up afterward and say, “Can your best friend do these things?” Well, if you have a friend who always says what everyone will do and has an overcontrol issue over your life, possibly.
  • Learn the words to use. Sometimes kids need to know the words to use. Ashley talks about “micro-moments” such as mentioning to a child “did you ask first” or “make sure you tell them that you don’t like that.”
  • Respecting boundaries in addition to expressing them. Sometimes kids (and adults) can steamroll another person. We need to be sensitive to the boundaries of others when they express them to us. (As a mom of adult children, I’m super sensitive to this one.) This is something we can teach at a younger age.
  • The boundaries we teachers struggle with…. We, teachers, know that our jobs can be super high-burnout. In my 24-year career, it took me a good 16 years to learn to express my own boundaries with my administrators. As Ashley says, “no” is a complete sentence. (But it can be hard to learn to say it wisely, well, and respectfully.)

Today’s show is one to talk about with others and with students. One thing we can do to help children is to give them the language to use by picking a few “low stakes” scenarios before they might happen. Some examples are:

  • “Someone wants to look at your homework”
  • “Someone wants to always pick the game that is played,” or
  • “You feel like people don’t listen to you.”

For Blended Learning Environments: The beginning of the year is a good time to make sure you include your boundaries in your class newsletter or an email home. Something I would say was:

All assignments are due at 8 am or at the end of the school day. If you’re having trouble turning in work or have questions, email as soon as you have a problem (so there’s a timestamp showing you didn’t wait until the last minute), but remember, I’ll reply on the next weekday. You can also come to school early – I’ll be there at 7:30 to help anyone who didn’t have internet at home.

What are your boundaries? Have you been clear with parents and others about when you’re available to help?

If you have challenges at home.

When I was caring for my Dad in his last days, I created several emergency lesson plans for each class. I never knew when I would be back. I had them ready to go and on my desk each day when I left school. I made sure my principal and the admin team knew they were there and that, if something unexpected happened, they could use the emergency lesson plans without having to call me. I also had a block in Google Classroom called “emergency lesson plans” that were ready to go. That way, I could log in and hit publish, and they were ready, and I didn’t have to remember. Sometimes planning ahead like this can really help reduce the stress of worrying about your classroom. I lived this last year, and this really helped me draw boundaries so I could be there for Dad. Here’s my substitute teacher manual you can fill out for yourself on Tpt if you want a copy.

Resources Mentioned in This Episode

About Ashley Bendiksen – Bio as Submitted

Ashley Bendiksen, author of A Kids Book About Boundaries, on teaching kids boundaries
Ashley Bendiksen, author of A Kids Book About Boundaries

Ashley Bendiksen is an acclaimed national speaker, award-winning activist, and survivor-turned subject matter expert in domestic violence, teen dating violence, early intervention, and trauma resilience. She supports diverse audiences nationwide — uniquely specializing in working with schools and youth-serving organizations to address risks, prevent harm, empower students, and equip caring adults with the skills to provide trauma-informed care.

Ashley’s personal lived experience is supplemented by extensive professional work across the criminal justice system, victim services, primary prevention, policy, and advocacy spaces. Ashley is also the founder of a global storytelling platform for survivors and co-founder of Island Youth Coaching, an organization specializing in supporting adolescents and youth-serving nonprofits.

Ashley is also the author of A Kids Book About Boundaries — a practical and powerful book for school-age children and caring adults, teaching boundary-setting, communication, and self-advocacy skills.

Connect with Ashley: ashleybendiksen.com · LinkedIn · Instagram · Facebook · YouTube

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Episode Transcript

This transcript was generated using AI and has been reviewed by humans for accuracy. Minor errors or artifacts may remain but I worked my best to find any issues with the transcript as I reviewed the show. – Vicki

Click to read the full transcript

Announcer (00:22): This is the 10-Minute Teacher Podcast with your host, Vicki Davis.

Vicki Davis (00:00): In his book, Boundaries, Henry Cloud says the most basic boundary-setting word is no. But how do we help our younger children set those boundaries? Today’s guest, Ashley Bendiksen, teaches us how to help younger kids set boundaries in class. Happy Motivational Monday. This is episode 970.

Vicki Davis (00:27): Today’s show is sponsored by Ellis. A free tool from Children’s Health Council that helps teachers think through tough student moments and find practical next steps. Tune in at the end of the show, and I’ll tell you more about Ellis.

Vicki Davis (00:45): Today, we’re welcoming back Ashley Bendiksen, an expert in abuse prevention and trauma resilience. She was on this show back in 2019 talking about teen dating abuse that we’ll include in the show notes.

She just wrote A Kids Book About Boundaries, published by Penguin Random House. It teaches children the communication and self-advocacy skills, if you ever wished, there was a way to help kids understand boundaries before they’re in crisis. This is the conversation for you.

Ashley, what happened in these seven years since we talked that led you from awareness to prevention?

Ashley Bendiksen (01:29): Part of my belief is that early intervention is the strategy. It’s great if I can reach students and people who have already experienced these issues. But the big question is always, how can we prevent this? And I don’t think that always necessarily means having these big, heavy, complex conversations, but instead teaching those tiny micro empowering life skills that can help us in situations where we need to use our voice.

So certainly in my field, talking about dating violence or unhealthy relationships, even if that’s unhealthy friend relationships as a teen, learning as a child how to use your voice, how to recognize what doesn’t feel comfortable, that’s really preventative and really empowering. So it was a no-brainer for me to publish a book that reached kids even younger than my typical audience.

Vicki Davis (02:16): Ashley, you’ve talked very openly about your dating abuse situation on the Crime Junkie podcast. When that wonderful, loving, great relationship took a dark turn, how would you have acted differently if you had read this book?

Ashley Bendiksen (02:31): It sounds silly as an adult, but as a kid, and this is a very common experience, I didn’t know that I had a choice when things happened to me. I had a very limited sense of agency in my life, and so I thought I had to navigate what life threw at me. The idea of speaking up, expressing a boundary, saying no, and not just trying to be compliant or avoid conflict or just people please, I was very foreign.

I think I just didn’t realize I had a voice. And just knowing that I could simply even say the word no, period, as a full sentence, really would have helped me, I think, in those early moments where I kind of sensed that something was wrong or that this person was changing. I could have stopped it so much sooner had I just had the skills to speak up and communicate in those moments.

Vicki Davis (03:16): So what was the light bulb moment that made you think, hey, we need to start having this conversation before kids go in crisis?

Ashley Bendiksen (03:23): I think a lot of my work certainly was born out of my own self-discovery, right? Part of healing from trauma or abuse or any challenge in life, you look back and you ask a lot of questions. What could have been done differently? So it was certainly something that started as a personal reflection. But now that I’ve been speaking in schools for, my goodness, nearly 18 years, it’s just become so evident that this is a huge piece of the puzzle.

Vicki Davis (03:47): So you really encourage kids to read this with their caregiver. Like, what’s your ideal scenario for how young could kids be to read this book, and how should parents, caregivers, teachers approach this?

Ashley Bendiksen (04:02): This book is part of a best-selling kids’ book series called A Kids Book About, an incredible collection of books on all different topics. They are all kind of written from that same approach. It’s meant to be read between an adult and a child.

It’s a great read for an adult to sit down, go page by page. There’s lots of blank space, not filled with tons of designs and illustrations. It’s very much meant for clear, communicating, step-by-step conversations and leaving room for those nuanced questions in between, which is really helpful because I think not only are you teaching the child who is listening to the book or reading with their caregiver, but also parents and caregivers are adopting some language that they can use to teach these mini lessons and these skills around boundaries, because many adults don’t really know how to navigate this topic either. I think it’s really helpful for both of them. Hopefully the book becomes the beginning of ongoing conversations, ongoing reinforcement, and they can pick it up as the child gets older too.

You had asked about the ages. It’s written for young people aged five to nine. So this is for that elementary level. Believe me when I say I painstakingly wrote this, thinking about every single word. Will a child understand this? Will this makes sense to them? Is this example relevant? So it’s super kid-friendly. But again, these become those transformative skills that they can apply in different ways and contextualize as they get older throughout life.

Vicki Davis (05:28): Ashley, I came across Henry Cloud, who writes a lot of adult book on boundaries. But teaching boundaries is important. And it’s not just, don’t touch me here or there. I had a friend in college who I had to break off the friendship because she wanted to always say where we would go eat, who I could be friends with, and was really trying to control everything about my life. And it took me a while to open my eyes to that.

So what do you want a kid to feel after they read this book that will help them carry forward to circumstances later in life like mine or like yours?

Ashley Bendiksen (06:02): It’s definitely something I hear often among teens. I mean, when I give the dating violence talks, they’ll come up and say, can your best friend do these things? It absolutely applies to all people, all relationships, all scenarios.

And one of the things that I teach in the book is that boundaries are not just physical, they’re emotional too. And we can set these emotional boundaries where we speak up when people say or do things or treat us in ways that make us feel uncomfortable or even unsafe in some way. Those are dynamics where it matters just as much as the physical scenarios where you need to use your voice and speak up because obviously young people are learning to develop their sense of self, their sense of identity, and not just adopting what their friends want or becoming who other people want them to be. It’s really powerful to protect themselves, but also protect their sense of self and authenticity and autonomy.

Vicki Davis (06:54): What do you think the biggest misconceptions that parents and teachers have about helping kids understand boundaries?

Ashley Bendiksen (07:02): Simply that it’s some big, heavy, complex topic, that it’s about physical contact. The misconception is that it’s this mammoth issue and many people don’t really know where to begin or where to start. But really, teaching boundaries is a simple, sustainable approach. It’s something teachers can do in very small ways in the classroom. It’s something parents can do on a regular basis.

And it’s really just kind of using those micro moments to teach what boundaries are, reinforce the fact that a child has choice in certain situations, giving them two options, giving them language. Like, if you don’t like that, you can say, I don’t like that. And it’s just those little moments when repeated that really make a big impact. So it’s not about needing to know all about boundaries or adding this whole extra lesson into your lesson plan. It’s just about those small daily moments that reinforce these skills.

Vicki Davis (07:55): So Ashley, I’m sure some teachers are listening to this thinking, my students need this. Is there a boundary building activity they can do in their classroom like this week?

Ashley Bendiksen (08:04): As far as activities go, kids love role-playing. When I do workshops with students, they love a scenario. They love talking it out. They love reading a script and practicing these phrases. And I think that’s probably one of the biggest barriers that young people face is that they don’t always have the words, the language to communicate things.

So I think a simple thing that teachers could do this week is look up some scenarios, create some, have the students help create the scenarios, and then have them discuss and kind of practice what might you say if you didn’t want to play that game or you didn’t want to let someone look at your homework. That’s a fun activity and one any teacher can do.

Vicki Davis (08:42): So often, we teachers, we just want everybody to get along, right? And so you have the kid who always tells everybody else what to play, really fusses if they don’t get their way. When we gloss over it and don’t help with that boundary-setting activity. Sometimes we have to pause. Sometimes we have to have those conversations when we see that there is a dominant student, for everyone’s sake. That’s not always an easy thing to do.

Do you think sometimes we send the wrong message, just trying to help everybody to get along? Oh, let’s just go along with what so-and-so wants because they’re a pain, right? When they don’t get their way. Like, that’s not the message we want to send.

Ashley Bendiksen (09:22): I agree. And it’s certainly not helping that child as well. That’s the other side of this whole coin — is it’s not just teaching young people to express boundaries, but respect boundaries as well.

This doesn’t mean you have to pull that dominant student aside and have this whole coaching moment or lesson with them. But we can just say things like, hey, let’s pause. Did we ask first before we grab their pencil? Let’s give them a moment to finish. Or little things that we can say to call out — I don’t know, you just, that was a little disrespectful where you just talked over your classmate, or maybe your classmate doesn’t want to play that game. So it’s just those little micro moments, again, of just reinforcing classroom norms, norms of respect and how it goes both ways.

Vicki Davis (10:03): One of the things about teaching is it’s high burnout. You know that. It bleeds over into our lives. Like, that’s why I think the Boundaries books helped me so much, because as a teacher, it’s so hard to have boundaries.

Ashley Bendiksen (10:16): It certainly is. Physical boundaries, time boundaries, tech and digital boundaries, emotional boundaries. When you’re working with kids that are challenging, you’re right, it can feel really hard. And suddenly you wake up one day and realize that you don’t have a boundary line at all with anything.

As some advice, don’t be too hard on yourself for that. It’s not necessarily because you’re not practicing enough self-care. That is just the system you’re in. Sometimes it doesn’t support you to have boundaries, but I think in those moments of awareness, that’s when we just course correct a little bit and maybe just set one small boundary where we re-communicate to the kids and the parents that you don’t answer emails after a certain time of night. Realizing that you really need to just do something for yourself Saturday morning and scheduling it in. So it’s just one small thing at a time.

Vicki Davis (11:06): We had a boundary setting conversation after COVID and we said, hey, all our assignments are going to be due at either 8 a.m. the next morning, the end of class or the end of school. We’re not going to have any assignments due at midnight for boundary reasons for both kids and for teachers.

I could just feel everybody relax when we openly said, OK, this is a boundary. We all need to have a personal life. We shouldn’t apologize for that advocacy. See. Now, sometimes we all get in situations where the boundaries do blur. If we’re always saying yes, and we’re not setting boundaries, we’re not setting boundaries. We’re not setting, then does that model what we want our students to do?

Ashley Bendiksen (11:44): We are constantly modeling behaviors for the young people around us. So that is a big piece of it. Some people might feel their school or their administration doesn’t support their ability to take breaks, practice self-care, set boundaries. And maybe that’s a conversation to have too, but it starts with, again, at any age, using your voice, expressing how you feel, seeing what you can do, and then just taking it one step at a time from there.

Vicki Davis (12:07): Ashley Bendiksen, thank you for coming on the show.

Ashley Bendiksen (12:09): Thank you, Vicki.

Vicki Davis (12:10): Thank you, Ellis, for sponsoring this week’s shows on the 10-Minute Teacher. Ellis is a free tool for K-12 educators from the Children’s Health Council. Here’s how it works. You type in what actually happened with a student, what you saw, what you already tried, and where you’re stuck. Then Ellis gives you practical, evidence-aligned next steps from a knowledge base of content from trusted partners like CAST, CASEL, Understood, and others.

Ellis gives you information, not clinical advice, and it doesn’t collect personally identifiable student information. It’s a far better place to start than general purpose AI tools because Ellis isn’t pulling from the open internet. So the next time you leave school still thinking about that one student, go to coolcatteacher.com forward slash Ellis. That’s CoolCatTeacher.com forward slash Ellis, and it’s free.

Vicki Davis (13:15): Thanks for tuning in to the 10 Minute Teacher Podcast. Watch the video version of this podcast and catch my new radio and TV show, Cool Cat Teacher Talk, on YouTube and a radio or TV station near you. Join my Cool Cat Teacher Classroom Matters newsletter at CoolCatTeacher.com forward slash newsletter. Leave a review if you found this helpful. See you later, educator.

Disclosure of Material Connection: This is a sponsored episode and blog post. Ellis, a program of Children’s Health Council, has compensated me to share information about Ellis. However, all opinions expressed are my own. I have personally reviewed these resources and only recommend tools I believe offer genuine value to classroom teachers. My endorsement is limited to the educational products and services discussed in this episode. This post also includes some affiliate links to books; if you choose to buy, I will be paid a commission on the affiliate program, at no additional cost to you. I am disclosing this in accordance with the Federal Trade Commission’s 16 CFR, Part 255: “Guides Concerning the Use of Endorsements and Testimonials in Advertising.” The sponsor has no impact on the editorial content of this show.

The post Teaching Kids Boundaries: What to Say in the Moment appeared first on Cool Cat Teacher Blog by Vicki Davis @coolcatteacher helping educators be excellent every day. Meow!

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