How to Become a Better Principal: Award Winning Principals Speak

From the Cool Cat Teacher Blog by Vicki Davis

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Leadership. It is something we can learn. I’ve had some of the greatest principals and some of the worst. But here’s something ironic. Sometimes they have been the same person. If that is the case, leadership is something that can be learned. And we as leaders can be at our best or worst. But one thing is for sure, we’re never staying the same.

In Part 1 we talk about leadership and who we decide to become as a leader. First, we hear from Ronn Nozoe, the CEO of the National Principals Association (used to be NASSP), about an AI survey and the interesting notes on the schools that are doing it well. Then, we talk to the principal of the school who put Stephen Covey’s 7 habits into practice in their school, Muriel Summers. This is part 1 of a two-part series on leadership. Let’s learn.

Also, I'll be posting part 2 on this show with an award winning middle school and high school principal. They will talk about cell phone policies, how to reach every student and help them improve, and about relationships and leading with love while improving attendance and discipline in their schools.

A note before you listen: this episode talks openly about the weight teachers and principals are carrying right now, and one segment includes an emotional story about a beloved teacher who died young. If you are struggling, please reach out to a counselor, therapist, social worker, faith leader, or your doctor.

Listen to the Show – Part 1

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Resources from the Show

Books from this episode

• The Leader in Me: How Schools and Parents Around the World Are Inspiring Greatness, One Student at a Time — Stephen R. Covey, with Muriel Summers. The book that grew out of what Muriel and her staff built at A.B. Combs.
• Teacher Believed in Me: The Science and Heart of Making a Difference in Students’ Positive Well-Being — David K. Hatch and Muriel Summers. Muriel’s newest book.
• The 7 Habits of Highly Effective People — Stephen R. Covey. The framework Muriel heard him present in Washington, D.C., and then taught to five-year-olds.
• The 7 Habits of Highly Effective Teens — Sean Covey. Muriel calls this the version her teachers could actually use.
• The 8th Habit: From Effectiveness to Greatness — Stephen R. Covey. The book in which Covey wrote about what A.B. Combs was beginning to do.
• Multipliers: How the Best Leaders Make Everyone Smarter — Liz Wiseman. The multipliers-and-diminishers idea Vicki brings into the close.

Topic-specific resource links

• NASSP — the National Principals Association. As of July 1, 2026, NASSP expanded to serve school leaders from pre-K through high school under the new name. Ronn Nozoe is the CEO.
• Ronn Nozoe’s leadership page at NASSP.
• Leader in Me (FranklinCovey) — the program that grew out of A.B. Combs, now in more than 8,000 schools and 70+ countries. Editor’s note: on the recording Muriel cites roughly 8,500 schools in more than 60 countries; the current published figures are 8,000+ schools in 70+ countries.
• A.B. Combs Leadership Magnet Elementary School, Raleigh, North Carolina.
• Justin Reich, MIT — the colleague who put Vicki onto Patrick O’Neill’s review.

People and ideas referenced

• Michael Catt — Vicki’s former pastor, quoted in the opening: “Leadership is hard. It requires that you constantly self-evaluate and face up to your own shortcomings.”
• Todd Whitaker — the researcher on what the best principals do differently, including quietly consulting informal teacher leaders before a big decision.
• Liz Wiseman — multipliers versus diminishers.
• Stephen R. Covey and Sean Covey — the 7 Habits framework at the center of Muriel’s segment.
• David K. Hatch — Muriel’s co-author on Teacher Believed in Me.
• Patrick O’Neill, faculty member at Ivy Tech Community College in Bloomington, Indiana — his forensic review of 14 meta-analyses on generative AI in education.
• Grace Adkins — Vicki’s second-grade teacher and mentor, who retired on her 95th birthday after 75 years of teaching and said “every child a winner.”
• Miss Rose and Miss Honey — the two teachers whose stories anchor Muriel’s segment..

Key Takeaways for Teachers

From Ronn Nozoe: leadership is a “we” thing

• Most principals are already moving on AI — and almost none feel expert. In the survey from NASSP and Vicki Davis, roughly seven in ten said they are already immersed in AI and moving forward with it. Only about 18 percent said they feel very confident leading AI implementation next year, with a little over half saying somewhat confident.
• The number one thing school leaders asked for was not money. It was time. Ronn compares it to research and development in business: schools rarely reinvest in dedicated, well-resourced planning and collaboration time, and it shows.
• Success is subtraction, not addition. Vicki names it and Ronn agrees — the next move in education is taking things off the plate, not stacking more on. He describes running an actual “off-the-plate committee” as a principal that could never take anything off, because everything felt important.
• The best ideas came from a teacher round table. Back in Hawaii, Ronn gave teacher leaders time and got out of the way. They solved problem after problem the front office could not.
• Teachers: go talk to your principal. Ronn’s direct advice is not to wait to be invited. Say the thing you can help with. Most principals do not know how their teachers actually feel until someone tells them.

From Muriel Summers: everyone in the building is a leader

• Leadership is a set of habits, and habits can be taught. Muriel heard Stephen Covey speak, went back to a struggling Title I school, and asked whether you could teach those habits to a five-year-old. The answer turned out to be yes.
• Every child has genius. That is a stated core belief at A.B. Combs, not a slogan — and once children saw their own genius recognized, disciplinary action dropped almost immediately.
• Children read three sentences on their way in every morning. Above the door: You are seen. You are known. You are loved. Ask what your students read on their way into your room.
• Students as young as five interviewed teacher candidates. They were taught how to interview, an adult sat in but did not coach, and Muriel says the children’s read on a candidate was consistently the hardest and most accurate part of the process.
• Start with what you already have. Muriel’s answer for a teacher who wants to begin tomorrow is not a purchase order — it is teaching the habits inside the books already on your shelf.

Classroom Takeaway

You don’t need a title to be a leader in your building. Both guests land in the same place: the leader you are today is not the leader you have to stay — and the same is true of every child in your room.

About the Guests

Ronn Nozoe

“When people get out of that and they start realizing that this is a we thing, we’re all in it together, that’s where the real magic happens… to the non-educators, it’s not really magic. It’s pain and suffering and sacrifice and struggle. But it looks like magic on the outside.”

Ronn Nozoe

Chief Executive Officer, NASSP

Ronn Nozoe, CEO of NASSP, now the National Principal's Association.

Ronn Nozoe is a lifelong educator and CEO of NASSP, an organization dedicated to advancing school leadership to transform education. Previously, he served as associate and interim executive director at ASCD and as deputy assistant secretary at the U.S. Department of Education, where he led initiatives in teacher quality, school safety, and rural, migrant, and Indigenous education.

In Hawaii, Nozoe served as deputy state superintendent from 2010–15, amplifying principals’ voices and leveraging state and federal funds to improve student outcomes. He has also served as a district superintendent, principal, vice principal, and teacher.

Nozoe holds bachelor’s and master’s degrees from the University of Hawaii at Mānoa.

Connect: LinkedIn · nassp.org

Muriel Summers

“They’d walk up the steps, they’d look at those words. You are seen, you are known, you are loved.”

Muriel Summers

Global Ambassador, Leader in Me; former principal, A.B. Combs Elementary

Muriel Summers, the award winning principal who built a school around the 7 Habits for Highly Effective People and saw incredible results in her Title 1 school as a result.

From the minute she stepped into the classroom, Muriel Summers has always viewed teaching as a calling. As a principal, she twice guided her school, A.B. Combs Elementary in Raleigh, North Carolina, to being named the top magnet school of America. The school also became the original leadership school featured in FranklinCovey’s Leader in Me. The vision and strategies she and her remarkable staff developed are now being replicated in over 8,000 schools and more than seventy countries.

She bears the honor of having received several awards, including teacher of the year, principal of the year, and an honorary doctorate. She was awarded the William and Ida Friday award for Leadership in Innovation, The Order of the Long Leaf Pine given by the Governor of North Carolina (the state’s highest honor given to a North Carolinian), the University of North Carolina at Chapel Hill Award for Leadership in Education, and the Ralph Kimmel Award, North Carolina’s highest honor for principals. She now serves as the Global Ambassador for the Leader in Me and keynotes at conferences across the US and abroad.

Connect: leaderinme.org

Coming Next Week: Leadership, Part 2 — Leading With Love

This was part one of a two-part series. Part two is Leading With Love, and it takes everything above out of theory and into a real building on a real Monday morning. Two of America’s National Principals of the Year show what it actually looks like when you lead with heart — one in a middle school where belonging is measured and tracked, one in a high school where a restorative framework cut office referrals by 69 percent. Bring a tissue for this one too.

Part two airs next week and will be added right here on this page — same link, so you can bookmark it now. Here are the two guests you’ll meet.

Sonia E. Ruiz

“So I care for every student that walks in our building, I care for who they are right now, and I care for who they’re gonna be in the future.”

Sonia E. Ruiz

Principal, Jane Addams Middle School; 2026 National Middle Level Principal of the Year

Sonia Ruiz, NASSP's 2026 Middle Level Principal of the Year

Sonia E. Ruiz is the Principal of Jane Addams Middle School in Bolingbrook, Illinois, where her leadership has guided the school to Exemplary Status for three years in a row. A proud Latina leader, Sonia has dedicated her career to ensuring that every student learns at high levels in safe, supportive, and inclusive school communities.

Her leadership journey spans more than two decades, beginning with her early years as a school social worker and progressing through roles as assistant principal, associate principal, and now principal. Throughout her career, she has been recognized for transforming school culture, strengthening teacher collective efficacy, and advancing equitable practices. In recognition of her impact, Sonia was honored as the 2021 Lake County IPA Assistant Principal of the Year, the 2025 Three Rivers Middle School Principal of the Year, the 2025 Illinois Middle School Principal of the Year, the 2025 Illinois NAESP National Distinguished Principal of the Year, the 2026 NASSP Illinois Middle Level Principal of the Year, and, most recently, the 2026 National Middle Level Principal of the Year.

Beyond her school community, Sonia serves the profession at both the state and national levels. She is the current Diversity and Equity Chair for the Illinois Principals Association (IPA), was appointed to the Illinois State Board of Education’s Inclusive American History Commission, and will serve on the 2025–2026 IPA State Superintendent’s Advisory Council. Nationally, she is a member of the NAESP National Task Force on Race and Equity and was selected to attend the National School Leaders Advocacy Conference in Washington, D.C., in March 2025, an invitation-only gathering of principals from across the country. She also participated in the inaugural AASA Aspiring Superintendents Academy for Latina and Latino Leaders.

She earned her Bachelor’s degree in Psychology and Master’s degree in School Social Work from the University of Illinois at Chicago, where she also founded Gamma Phi Omega International Sorority, Inc. She later earned a Master’s degree in Educational Leadership from Concordia University Chicago and is currently pursuing her Ph.D. in Educational Administration and Foundations at Illinois State University, with a focus on Leadership, Equity, and Inquiry.

Connect: LinkedIn · @MrsSoniaRuiz

Amanda Jamerson (AJAM the Advocate)

“We have to follow and do our steps as the adults, as the lead learners in the space… if we’re not doing that, then how do we expect our students to?”

Amanda Jamerson

Associate Principal, Shorewood High School; 2026 National High School Assistant Principal of the Year

AP Jamerson, also called “AJAM the Advocate” is a national finalist for assistant principal of the year.

Amanda Jamerson, also known as AJAM the Advocate, is an accomplished educational leader and advocate recognized for advancing excellence in teaching, learning, and student support across Southeastern Wisconsin. Throughout the Greater Milwaukee area, she is known for her deep passion for serving students, families, and school communities with purpose and integrity.

Amanda currently serves as the Associate Principal of Shorewood High School, where she leads with a strong commitment to equity, growth, and excellence. She believes deeply that showing up for students and school communities is heart work, and she leads each day with purpose, compassion, and an unwavering commitment to equity and excellence. During her tenure, she designed and implemented a Restorative Actions Framework that reduced office discipline referrals by 69 percent over three years, while deepening student understanding of empathy and accountability. She also co-launched a comprehensive cell phone policy that promotes digital balance and has resulted in improved classroom focus and fewer peer conflicts.

Her impact has been recognized at both the state and national levels, as she was named Wisconsin’s Associate Principal of the Year and selected as a national finalist for NASSP’s 2026 National Assistant Principal of the Year. She went on to win that national award on April 17, 2026, becoming the 2026 National High School Assistant Principal of the Year.

Connect: LinkedIn · @ajamtheadvocate · Facebook · ajamtheadvocate.com

Listen to Part 2

Stay tuned!

Resources from Part 2

Key Takeaways from Part 2

Part 2 Transcript

Other Shows for Teachers Like You

• See the Gap. Be the Bridge. — a leadership hour on seeing the gap in front of a student and building the bridge across it.
• Heart First. Tools Second. — how to teach and use technology in today’s classroom without losing the human part.
• All Cool Cat Teacher Talk episodes.

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Disclosure of Material Connection: This episode includes some affiliate links. This means that if you choose to buy I will be paid a commission on the affiliate program. However, this is at no additional cost to you. Regardless, I only recommend products or services I believe will be good for my readers and are from companies I can recommend. I am disclosing this in accordance with the Federal Trade Commission’s 16 CFR, Part 255: “Guides Concerning the Use of Endorsements and Testimonials in Advertising.” This company has no impact on the editorial content of the show.

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Free BBC Resources for Your Classroom: Dinosaurs, Bluey, Planet Earth and News

From the Cool Cat Teacher Blog by Vicki Davis

Subscribe to the 10 Minute Teacher Podcast and Cool Cat Teacher Talk anywhere you listen to podcasts.

Free, high quality, ad-free resources are becoming a treasure to teachers. The BBC Learning Hub has these resources. From Walking with Dinosaurs, to Planet Earth, to Bluey content that helps kids relate, connect, and learn — the BBC Learning Hub has free resources that every classroom can use.

Sponsored: BBC Learning Hub sponsored this podcast episode. All opinions are my own.

At ISTE, I first met Kimmie Fink, today's guest, at her BBC booth. I really could barely get to her because so many teachers were coming by to get the printables for the Bluey content they have on their site. These printables are all available for free on their website for teachers to download and use along with the videos. All of this content can easily be sent to Google Classroom, as well.

Teachers kept asking what the premium version of BBC Learning Hub was — and the answer was: the BBC Learning Hub is free and it is the premium version. Award-winning teacher Kimmie Fink talks about the resources on the site, the most popular videos and handouts she has curated, and what teachers love to share with their students. I highly recommend the BBC Learning Hub and appreciate their sponsorship of my time at ISTE 2026 this year. Let's have a Fab Idea Friday as we talk about the free resources at the BBC Learning Hub.

“Somebody asked me, she said, so is there a free version in addition to a paid version? And I said, no — there’s only free.”

Kimmie Fink

Senior Editor, BBC Learning Hub

Listen to the Show

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Watch on YouTube and subscribe for new episodes every week.

Key Takeaways for Teachers from Kimmie Fink

• “There's only free” is the whole business model. You can watch every video without an account, and a free login unlocks the printables, your own playlists, and Google Classroom assignments.
• Bluey is a draw for teachers of younger students. The BBC Learning Hub is the home of the only licensed Bluey learning materials. They have fifteen free lessons on friendship, feelings, and reading body language. For a child working on nonverbal cues, it can really help teach behavior skills.
• Leveled articles throughout the site. Articles pulled from BBC magazines are leveled for grades 3–5, 6–8, and 9–12, with vocabulary built in. Every reader in the room engages the same content at their own level.
• Take the piece you need, not the whole unit. Kimmie built the Walking with Dinosaurs field trip as a 45–60 minute student exploration with a full teacher guide. However, there is flexibility, as you can pull one dig-site video and stop there. As she put it, everything is not like a massive production.

Try This Tomorrow

Open the BBC Newsroom and play the day's Newsbite as your bell-ringer. It's a short news clip with questions already written and a response worksheet you can print. Five minutes of media literacy, no prep, and it's new every school day.

Every Resource Kimmie Mentioned on the Show

Everything below is free on the BBC Learning Hub. You can watch any video without an account. A free login is what unlocks the printables, your own playlists, and sending it all to Google Classroom, so I would set up an account for that. If you want to keep up with what is new, sign up for their newsletter.

Start Here

Bluey handouts for the classroom — free to download and copy from the BBC Learning Hub.

• BBC Learning Hub home page — Kimmie's first recommendation. The new top navigation is built to show you the breadth of what's there in one look.
• BBC Newsroom and the daily Newsbite — her answer for what a teacher can use tomorrow morning. A new five-minute news clip every school day with comprehension questions and differentiated response worksheets already written.

Bluey

• Bluey: Feelings, Friendship, and Other SEL Skills — the fifteen free lessons Kimmie mentions, for ages 4–7. Each one ties to a Bluey episode with discussion prompts and printable activities. These are the only licensed Bluey learning materials anywhere.
• Our 10 Favorite Bluey Activities and Arts and Crafts — the printables teachers were lining up for at ISTE. Print in color or black and white.

More free Bluey handouts. Sign up on BBC Learning Hub.

Walking with Dinosaurs

• Walking with Dinosaurs Virtual Field Trip — This is a cool one. Six dig sites for grades 3–8, an interactive map students explore in any order, twelve videos pairing a real dig with the CGI dinosaur, a quiz at each stop, the paleontologist field journal, and the “what dinosaur are you” personality quiz. A full teacher guide comes with it: standards alignment, extension activities, and a complete lesson plan. Figure 45 to 60 minutes for the whole thing — or pull one video and stop there.

Planet Earth and Sir David Attenborough

• Your Passport to 20 Years of BBC's Planet Earth — the printable passport for grades 3–5 that students fill in as they work through the clips.
• The Ultimate Planet Earth Playlist — the eight most popular clips Kimmie curated, 32 minutes total: polar bears, bobcats, catfish, marine iguanas, cave swiftlets, the mouse lemurs in Madagascar she describes on the show, dolphins, and emperor penguins.
• Video Playlist: The Best of Sir David Attenborough — ten clips from Planet Earth, Blue Planet, and Frozen Planet, including the polar bear cubs Kimmie names as a writing-prompt starter.
• Planet Earth Quizzes — check for understanding without writing anything yourself.

ELA and Reading

• Leveled Non-Fiction Student Reading Passages — the piece I'd point a curriculum director to first. The same article written three ways: grades 3–5 (Lexile 400–800), 6–8 (800–1200), and 9–12 (1000–1400), pulled from BBC Science Focus, HistoryExtra, and Discover Wildlife, with vocabulary built in and a bundle of response worksheets that work with any article.
• Every video on the site has a writing prompt attached to it. You can pick a clip your students will care about and the prompt is already there.

Math and Early Literacy

• Numberblocks Fun: Playful Math Activities for PreK–2 — 50+ free printables covering number sense, odd and even, counting, addition, times tables, and patterns. Explainer videos for math are still in development.
• Alphablocks Letter Play: Early Reading Activities for PreK–2 — the companion phonics set: alphabet tiles, tracing, sounding out and blending.

The Chimpanzee Story Kimmie Tells

• The Chimpanzee Files — videos, a printable fact file, and a quiz for ages 8 and up, including the Jane Goodall documentaries that turned a dry reading anthology into something her students cared about.

Browse by Subject

• Science and Environment — first thing in the top nav.
• History and Global Studies — the social studies, global, and international content.
• My World: Media Literacy — how news gets made and how to evaluate it.
• Shark Interactive and Go Jetters — two more interactive experiences, including world landmarks for pre-K through second grade.

Kimmie also mentions that the site refreshes seasonally — bats in October, a Halloween Bluey worksheet, an article on the Fourth of July and the history behind it. Worth checking the subject pages at the start of each month. And there's a lot more on their site.

More from Kimmie

• Kimmie Fink's posts on the BBC Learning Hub blog

About Kimmie Fink

Kimmie Fink, Senior Editor, BBC Learning Hub

Kimmie Fink is the Senior Editor of the BBC Learning Hub. She has 13 years of classroom teaching experience, holds a Master of Education in Curriculum and Instruction, and was the 2009 Puget Sound Teacher of the Year.

Website: bbclearninghub.com
Facebook: BBC Learning Hub
Instagram / Threads: @bbclearninghub
Blog: Kimmie's posts on the BBC Learning Hub

Other Shows for K-12 Teachers Who Want Free, Ready-to-Use Resources

• Cool Cat Teacher Talk S7E1: Humans Teaching Humans About the Machine — AI and Edtech SuperShare, Part 2 — Kimmie's original segment, recorded on the floor at ISTE 2026.
• ISTE 2026: What AI and Edtech in K-12 Schools Actually Looks Like Now — the full Cool Cat Teacher Talk ISTE 2026 super series hub.
• Episode 956: How to Teach AI in Any Classroom, Not Just CS Class with Karim Meghji of CodeAI — another free-curriculum conversation from ISTE 2026.
• Episode 946: A Real Teacher Sparking Curiosity Makes All the Difference with Brandie Wright — human connection in the age of AI, also recorded at ISTE 2026.

Listen and Subscribe

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• All 10 Minute Teacher Episodes

Pick one resource from this episode, build a free playlist, and send it to your students before the week is out.

Episode Transcript

This transcript was generated using AI and has been reviewed by humans for accuracy. Minor errors or artifacts may remain but I worked my best to find any issues with the transcript as I reviewed the show. – Vicki

Click to read the full transcript

Vicki Davis (00:01): Free BBC Resources for Your Classroom. Episode 964. For Fab Idea Friday.

Today we talk about all kinds of free BBC storytelling with lesson plans built by a former teacher.

Number one, check out Bluey — 15 free lessons on friendship, feeling, and reading body language.

Two, every video has leveled articles. Same article, three reading levels.

Three, check out their amazing interactive field trips — Walking with Dinosaurs, Planet Earth Passport, and more.

Announcer (00:35): This is the 10 Minute Teacher Podcast with your host, Vicki Davis.

Vicki Davis (00:39): Today's show is sponsored by the BBC Learning Hub — a free library of ad-free BBC videos and ready-to-teach lesson plans for pre-K through twelfth grade. Stay tuned at the end of the show to learn more.

Vicki Davis (00:53): Our next guest, Kimmie Fink, spent 13 years teaching. She was named Puget Sound Teacher of the Year, and now she's Senior Editor at the BBC Learning Hub. She helps bring BBC's world-class storytelling — from Planet Earth to Walking with Dinosaurs — to everyday classrooms with free, ready-to-use resources.

So we're at ISTE 2026. First of all, these resources are free. As you're pulling together content, what did you start, like, looking at to design the content to bring it to classrooms?

Kimmie Fink (01:23): Yeah, you know, I think for me, getting to work for the BBC is kind of a dream, because there's so much amazing content out there. And you know that it's trusted, that it's accurate, that it's well produced. And I know how much my students enjoyed, in particular, engaging with video — and how hard it was to find quality video, especially on YouTube. It's full of ads, right?

And so having something that is just safe for my students to watch and that I know is of great quality. We've looked through this massive library of BBC content and looked for things that we know are going to be engaging to students. Also my experience as a mom. I see things like the racer snakes chasing the baby iguanas, and I'm thinking, oh, my eight-year-old is going to eat that up. I know that all kids will, because that content is so engaging.

We're looking to provide supplemental resources for teachers that are just ready to go, like out of the box. So you don't have to do so much. I also knew that as a teacher, I had my curriculum that I was teaching. I was really looking for things to supplement and to make the experience come to life. So the idea that we have this home for that where you can come is just really appealing to me.

Vicki Davis (02:36): When I was at your booth, you had the videos and you have like lesson plans and you can download it. So like describe: if a teacher wanted to use stuff tomorrow, what would be the kinds of things he or she could expect to be able to get from your site?

Kimmie Fink (02:50): Gosh, it's hard to know where to start. But for ELA, we have these wonderful articles that are pulled from BBC magazines like Science Focus, History Extra, and Discover Wildlife. And what we've done is we've leveled them. So it's the same article, but it's written at a grade three through five, grade six through eight, grade nine through 12. So your students can access it at whatever level. And we know that in every classroom, just because it's labeled a fifth grade classroom doesn't mean everybody's reading at a fifth grade level, right? But they're able to access that at any level.

There's vocabulary built into that. Every single one of our videos has a writing prompt attached to it. So you just pick something you think that your kids are going to be super interested in. Maybe it's polar bear cubs. And there's a writing prompt that goes with it. So that's where I would start with ELA.

With science — Walking with Dinosaurs came out in 1999. And they came out with a completely new version last year. And we got our hands on it first, which was so exciting. It follows six different dinosaurs. You go back and forth in the episode between the dig site and then the CGI dinosaurs. What I did is I went through it. I got to watch all the episodes and then pick out the learning moments. I paired a dig site clip with the CGI clip of the actual dinosaur. Then we created a paleontologist field journal. And then we made an interactive map. So students get this interactive map and you can visit in any order the dig sites. And you watch each of these videos and you take a quiz on it and you fill out your paleontologist field journal.

But there's some extra fun content in there like, what dinosaur are you? Because obviously you need to do a personality quiz to figure out what kind of dinosaur you are. I'm a Lusotitan.

Vicki Davis (04:22): Oh, I don't even know what that is.

Kimmie Fink (04:24): It is a massive, massive dinosaur.

But for me, I mean, just having students make that connection and almost kind of put themselves in that role of paleontologist. Because you look and they're showing you the Spinosaurus' tail. And then we're asking you to make some predictions about what do you think that meant about it. And then you watch it and you realize that the Spinosaurus was aquatic. So there's this real kind of like role playing and figuring things out as you go. And I just think that's such an exciting experience for kids.

Vicki Davis (04:53): So a teacher can just go and download all this, have all this posted in their learning management system, and then their kids can be paleontologists and basically go on. Now, how long would it take to do the virtual field trip? Is that something that like teachers do, say, hey, one day a week for six weeks — or what's the time span for it?

Kimmie Fink (05:12): I think that we estimated it was sort of like a 45-minute to 60-minute exploration for the students themselves. But we also have this full teacher guide, so you can do it as part of a larger unit. But something that I felt like as a teacher I needed was, I need to be able to take the piece that I want and not have to do the whole thing — because it's just like, well, I got to print this and then I got to download this, and it's too much. So, like, maybe you just want to watch the baby Triceratops video. You can do that. You can watch that individually.

It's really like, take what you need. So everything is not like a massive production. But you want to do the whole thing, you can do the whole thing.

Vicki Davis (05:46): They're free.

Kimmie Fink (05:47): It's really fun. Yeah. It's a really fun job.

Vicki Davis (05:49): You don't have — like you said, you don't have to worry about the ads and all the stuff that happens when we do YouTube content, because there are things that happen. So we've talked Walking with Dinosaurs. What are some of the other stories that kids love, that are some of your most popular, that teachers are just like, oh yeah, this is great for my classroom?

Kimmie Fink (06:08): We are so thrilled to be the home to the only licensed learning materials for Bluey. Bluey has such a massive footprint here with kids. I mean, we've been here at ISTE and everybody is coming to our booth. There's been so much engagement. And the way the show is written, it's just such a natural, you know, way to promote those life skills — you know, friendship and feelings and things like that. And doing it, meeting kids where they're at.

Vicki Davis (06:32): Body language.

Kimmie Fink (06:34): Oh gosh, huge. Recognizing emotions, right? All of that stuff. Which can be tough.

Vicki Davis (06:39): There is something called a nonverbal learning disability, which is a struggle, and a lot of kids have them. And learning to read that body language is just vital to help kids.

Kimmie Fink (06:49): So we've got 15 lessons. They're all free.

Vicki Davis (06:51): They had two little books. They're very cute. Because I was looking at them. And you can print them in color or black and white — either way — but they're really nice.

Kimmie Fink (06:59): So that's been really popular. One of my other favorite experiences has to do with Planet Earth. I mean, if anybody who knows Sir David Attenborough — I mean, he's a British national treasure. Is just incredible. He just celebrated his 100th birthday. And I mean, we have so much content from him.

And then we did a collection of the eight most popular Planet Earth videos. And we made a little Planet Earth passport so that kids can go through and watch, you know, the clip on lemurs in Madagascar and then go in their passport and fill out, you know, answer questions and illustrate it and just kind of explore on their own. So that's been a really popular one as well.

Vicki Davis (07:35): So it sounds like the virtual field trips are really popular with teachers.

Kimmie Fink (07:38): Yeah, that's really where we're going — is to create more interactive experiences for kids, because I think it's really important, that student-facing piece, and they can explore on their own. And it really mirrors the way that they're consuming content outside of an educational setting.

Vicki Davis (07:53): Well, think about it. You could go to a dig, but archaeological digs are not usually the most exciting places. You can't guarantee that they're going to find something on the day you're there. Otherwise, it's just going to be dirt, right?

Kimmie Fink (08:03): Right. Yes.

Vicki Davis (08:04): So this way you can actually go on a field trip that you'd expect. It's going to be consistent and do some cool things. And all that material is there. Y'all have a booth here at ISTE, but it has been hopping. Largely because of Bluey, but also the other stuff.

Kimmie Fink (08:17): I think Bluey draws people in. And then we say, here's everything else that we have. And people kind of go, wow. And somebody asked me, she said, so is there a free version in addition to a paid version? And I said, no — there's only free.

Vicki Davis (08:32): Really? I know it.

Kimmie Fink (08:34): Yeah, so it's great.

Vicki Davis (08:35): It's free and it's wonderful. You have seen this from both sides of the desk. Describe a time that something really changed in your classroom because you had the right piece of media.

Kimmie Fink (08:46): We had a reading anthology for our ELA program, as a lot of people do, and it could be a little dry. It was about chimpanzees. And we were engaging with it and it was fine. But I had found some videos of Jane Goodall in the Gombe with the chimpanzees. And I just felt like it made that connection for my kids, because they could actually see this person.

We think about, when we're reading about chimpanzees, and of course the goal is, you know, comprehension and things like that. But I also want kids to care about conservation and things like that. We talked about storytelling, and I feel like it's the way that we access experiences that we don't have firsthand knowledge of. Really high-quality video can do that often. And I don't think it takes away from getting the information as a reader. I think it amplifies it.

Vicki Davis (09:35): When you talk to teachers and when you're talking to them at the booth, what are they most excited about? Besides Bluey, obviously.

Kimmie Fink (09:41): I've had a lot of excitement around our newsroom. So I think that a lot of people hear BBC and they think news, right? Because, of course, BBC News is quite well known. And we have just launched our newsroom, and we have a daily Newsbite. And so you come in every day, every school day. We have a new one. It's like a five minute clip. It's about, you know, some kind of relevant news story. And then there's questions that go along with it.

People were really excited about it because, again, there's so much on there. And you were asking, like, where can I start? That's a great place to start. It's like, this is a great way to, like, start my day. And we know that media literacy is so important right now and, you know, quite frankly, really lacking. And so that's been something that teachers have been really excited about as well.

And then we are planning on, as we move into back to school, really gamifying that more. We really want to give teachers that. I mean, I'd play all the New York Times games, you know — like, give them that Wordle experience where they can see how they're doing compared to other classrooms and they can maybe have a streak or something like that. So that's coming as well. So we're getting some good feedback on that.

Vicki Davis (10:44): So if a teacher says, okay, I want to try out these resources — where do they start for what they could use right away?

Kimmie Fink (10:52): Yeah, I mean, I think the Newsbites is something that can be used right away. I would also recommend just go to our homepage. We have a new top nav that we just launched. And I think it does a really good job of showing the breadth of what's available. So you can go in and there's science and environment right at the top. There's social studies, global, international kind of content. And then we have other topics where you can explore, like what we have for like SEL, math and ELA, which we are still building out. But I think that's a good place.

And we are always updating. So every month, I'll put something that fits. Like we have an article on the 4th of July and the history behind that. And so if you go to each of those places, we'll have things that are like germane to whatever time of year it is. And I think that could be a nice entry point as well, right? So you're coming in in October, you're going to see some videos on bats because it's, you know, Halloween is coming. Or you're going to see a Bluey worksheet that's on Halloween. So we definitely try to have content that's relevant to the time.

Vicki Davis (11:47): Okay. Now you said math.

Kimmie Fink (11:49): Yeah, I did.

Vicki Davis (11:50): So could you give me at least one example for math? Because a lot of times people don't think of math as having great videos, but there are some out there.

Kimmie Fink (11:58): So what we have for math are currently — so we have the Numberblocks. So there's Numberblocks and Alphablocks, are shows that are distributed by the BBC. And we have licensed a lot of their magazine content as printables. So we have a lot of math printables that you can use. But the video is coming, and it will be more like a kind of like explainer videos.

Vicki Davis (12:19): Oh, that's awesome. Okay, so as we're finishing up — what kind of guides the content that you select?

Kimmie Fink (12:25): So we have developed our global knowledge framework, and there's really five pillars to it of things that guide our — you were asking before about how I make selections, right? So I'm looking at these things. And the first one is media literacy. And then second, we have sustainability and environment, which, of course, makes a lot of sense with what the BBC produces. We have global citizenship — so, you know, knowing more about the world, cultural awareness, cultural relevance — and then financial literacy and digital literacy as well.

We have a mailing list that you can sign up. When you go to the website, you can view all of our videos. You don't have to be signed in or anything like that. In order to download like a printable or something like that, you're going to go ahead and log in. It's really easy. It just takes a few minutes and it's free. And then when you are logged in, you can do things like create your own playlists. So we have curated playlists — like we have a great penguin playlist. But if you want to do your own and then assign it to students via Google Classroom, you can do all that once you're logged in and download all the printables that you want. Print them off. Copy them. You're good to go.

Vicki Davis (13:25): We've been talking with Kimmie from the BBC Learning Hub. Thanks for coming on.

Kimmie Fink (13:29): Thank you so much for having me.

Vicki Davis (13:30): The BBC Learning Hub is a free story-driven platform from BBC Studios with more than a thousand classroom resources. You get ad-free video clips from BBC storytelling that teachers and students already love, paired with standards-aligned lesson plans, leveled reading passages, comprehension questions, and printable activities. And you can send it all straight to Google Classroom. They work for pre-K all the way through high school, and every bit of it is free.

This is exactly the kind of high-quality, teacher-ready content I love sharing with you. Real BBC storytelling that makes the lesson come alive without adding to your prep. Build your first playlist at coolcatteacher.com forward slash BBC. Start with Walking with Dinosaurs or the amazing Bluey content for your younger students. That's coolcatteacher.com forward slash BBC.

Vicki Davis (14:30): Thanks for tuning in to the 10 Minute Teacher Podcast. Watch the video version of this podcast and catch my new radio and TV show, Cool Cat Teacher Talk, on YouTube and a radio or TV station near you. Join my Cool Cat Teacher Classroom Matters newsletter at coolcatteacher.com forward slash newsletter. Leave a review if you found this helpful. See you later, educator.

Disclosure of Material Connection: This is a sponsored episode and blog post. BBC Learning Hub has compensated me to share information about the BBC Learning Hub. However, all opinions expressed are my own. I have personally reviewed these resources and only recommend tools I believe offer genuine value to classroom teachers. My endorsement is limited to the educational products and services discussed in this episode. I am disclosing this in accordance with the Federal Trade Commission's 16 CFR, Part 255: “Guides Concerning the Use of Endorsements and Testimonials in Advertising.” The sponsor has no impact on the editorial content of this show.

The post Free BBC Resources for Your Classroom: Dinosaurs, Bluey, Planet Earth and News appeared first on Cool Cat Teacher Blog by Vicki Davis @coolcatteacher helping educators be excellent every day. Meow!

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Assessment and Feedback That Move Learning Forward

From the Cool Cat Teacher Blog by Vicki Davis

Subscribe to the 10 Minute Teacher Podcast and Cool Cat Teacher Talk anywhere you listen to podcasts.

As an instructional technology coach, formative assessment has been a hot-button issue for me. In my own classroom, my goal was to formatively assess learning every eight minutes. Then I knew whether to move on or reteach. I became convinced when I implemented formative assessment and began to teach binary numbers with mastery in three days instead of the two weeks it used to take with traditional paper-and-pen, grading, and hand-raising methods.

It was when every student shared what they knew that I knew if what I was doing worked. I kept the methods that worked, and interestingly, many of the most impactful ways to teach binary numbers were no-screen, hands-on lessons, even though we pulled out technology to formatively assess whether students were understanding binary numbers. I'm convinced.

I hope after you listen to what Starr Sackstein has to say that you'll be convinced too. Starr has been known for her radical methods of deep teaching and “throwing out grades” but we all know we need standards mastery.

Let's dig into actionable assessment and feedback that help students learn and grow in today's show. I've linked to free resources for this show — a discussion guide for your team, a set of no-screen formative assessment activities, and a checklist you can run against an assessment you already give. Starr says assessment is learning. Not the thing that comes after it.

“As I've really lived in this assessment work for such a long time now, I believe assessment is learning.”

Starr Sackstein

Educator, Author, and Speaker

Listen to the Show

Watch this video on YouTube.Subscribe to the Cool Cat Teacher Channel on YouTube

Watch on YouTube and subscribe for new episodes every week.

Key Takeaways for Teachers from Starr Sackstein

• The grade is what kills it. Starr's line is blunt: “as soon as you put a grade, though, on something, it is no longer formative.” So a lot of what we log as formative in the gradebook isn't formative at all. It's just a small summative.
• One preposition changes the whole thing. Assessment of learning looks backward at what already happened. Assessment for learning feeds the next move. Starr goes further than both: after two decades in this work, she says assessment is learning.
• Four corners still works, and most teachers still don't use it. Make a statement, students go to the corner they agree with, and they have to defend why they stood there. Then — and this is the part people skip — after they hear everyone else's reasoning, you let them switch corners.
• When the whole class misses it, look at your own directions first. Starr's own early projects came back as what she calls an “amorphous blob of information,” and her read on it is generous and hard at once: “when you have that many kids not doing what you asked them to do, there's clearly an issue on your side, not their side.”

Resources Mentioned in This Episode

• Actionable Assessment: A Step-by-Step Guide to Responsive Teaching and Student Growth by Michael McDowell and Starr Sackstein — the new book at the center of this conversation, with a strategy appendix in the back so you can find a move without hunting through the chapters.
• Small Teaching: Everyday Lessons from the Science of Learning by James M. Lang — the book behind Vicki's five-questions-at-the-start-of-class routine.
• Starr Sackstein's website and blog — where her free writing on grading, feedback, and student voice lives.
• Work in Progress — Starr's Education Week blog, the one she mentions at 01:30 as the game changer.
• Learner-Centered Spaces — Starr's podcast, co-hosted with Crystal Frommert.

About Starr Sackstein

Starr Sackstein

Starr Sackstein is an accomplished educator, author, and speaker known for her leadership in rethinking grading and assessment practices. With over two decades of experience in education, she has served as a teacher, instructional coach, and administrator, and is widely recognized for her advocacy of equitable, student-centered learning. Starr is the author of numerous books on grading reform, feedback, and student voice, and she frequently consults with schools and districts around the world. Through her writing, speaking, and professional development work, she continues to influence educators seeking more meaningful and inclusive approaches to teaching and learning.

Books: Actionable Assessment (with Michael McDowell) · Student-Led Assessment · Making an Impact Outside of the Classroom · Blogging for Educators

Connect with Starr: Website · LinkedIn · Facebook · Bluesky · Instagram · YouTube

Assessment Resources for Teachers and Administrators

Everything here is free. Use whatever tools your school has approved, and check with your district before you put anything student-related into an AI tool.

Three things to grab: a discussion guide for your team, a set of no-screen activities you can run tomorrow, and a one-page checklist for an assessment you already give.

DISCUSSION GUIDE: Formative Assessment

Target: teacher team meetings and PLCs. This runs in about 35 minutes. It works with a department, a grade-level team, or a whole faculty. Print it, or pull the questions up on a screen.

963-Formative-Assessment-Discussion-GuideDownload

If you want to run this with students instead

Same spine, three questions: Which assignments in here actually help you learn? Which ones just tell me what you already knew? What would you change about how I check whether you understand something? Then do something visible with one of their answers, or they won't tell you the truth next time.

NO-SCREEN FORMATIVE ASSESSMENT ACTIVITIES

Every one of these came off the tape, and not one of them needs a device, a login, or a purchase order. That matters more than it sounds like it should — when I sorted out which of my own methods actually worked, most of the keepers turned out to be no-screen and hands-on.

1. Four Corners

Grades 3–12 and adult PD. 10–20 minutes. You need: four signs and a statement worth arguing about.

Label your four corners agree, disagree, strongly agree, strongly disagree. Read a statement. Students go to the corner that matches what they think — and here is where teachers lose the data: tell them up front they will have to defend the corner they chose, so they can't just follow a friend. Let each corner discuss and share out. Then, after everyone has heard the justifications, invite anyone who wants to switch corners to switch.

The data you get: where the misconceptions are clustered, who can defend a position, and who moved after hearing evidence — which is the thing a multiple-choice question can never show you.

By subject, from Starr: English teachers use it for characterization. In science, put a question up with multiple-choice answers around the room and ask students to stand where their own lab data points them. In math, the same statement-and-defend structure works on process, not just answers.

2. The Post-it Round

All grades. Runs alongside any discussion. You need: one Post-it note per student.

Every student gets one Post-it. When they speak, you collect it. Once your note is in, you can't speak again until everyone else's has come in.

The data you get: a physical, visible record of who has talked and who hasn't — and the quiet observers start talking, because they know their turn is coming and it's finite. Starr calls this equity of voice. It also stops the same three kids from carrying the period.

3. Think, Pair, Share

All grades. 5–10 minutes.

Think silently. Talk to one partner. Share to the room. Starr pulled this off a random chart in the book, and it was on the evergreen list. This tactic is decades old and still doing the job. The part people skip is the silent think: cut it, and you get the fastest talker's answer, not the class's thinking.

4. Whiteboard Responses

All grades. Continuous. You need: individual whiteboards, or sheet protectors with card stock inside.

Everyone answers, everyone holds it up, you read the room in about four seconds. This is the one that gets you closest to checking understanding every few minutes without stopping the lesson to grade anything.

The data you get: a full-class snapshot in real time, which is exactly the moment Starr says you can still change the lesson — before you've burned forty minutes on a plan that wasn't going to work.

5. Reading Records

Elementary and middle, and useful in any subject with dense text. Ongoing.

Keep a running record of what a student reads and how they handle it. It's observational data, gathered over time, and it tells you things a test score won't.

MORE Free Resources on Assessment and Feedback

From Starr

• Her blog — free writing on grading reform, feedback, and student voice.
• Work in Progress at Education Week.
• Learner-Centered Spaces, her podcast with Crystal Frommert.

From the archive

• 5 Fantastic Peer Feedback Strategies for Your Classroom — Starr, all the way back on episode 85.
• How to Assess with Respect — Starr on episode 739 – this one is a good one to go with today's show.
• Math Games That Build Fluency While Kids Have Fun — Jennifer Bay-Williams and Gina Kling, on watching students play as your assessment data.

Other Shows for K-12 Teachers

• When I Knew It Was Time to Leave the Classroom — Starr on episode 564, a different kind of honest.
• Math Games That Build Fluency While Kids Have Fun — Jennifer Bay-Williams and Gina Kling on why speed drills block thinking, and watching students play as your assessment data.

Listen and Subscribe

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• All 10 Minute Teacher Episodes

If this episode gave you something you can use, share it with the teacher down the hall who is buried in grading right now.

Episode Transcript

This transcript was generated using AI and has been reviewed by humans for accuracy. Minor errors or artifacts may remain but I worked my best to find any issues with the transcript as I reviewed the show. – Vicki

Click to read the full transcript

Vicki Davis: Assessment and Feedback that Move Learning Forward. Episode 963 for Thought Leader Thursday.

The moment you put a grade on something, it stops being formative. Three tips.

One, if you use slides, add a quick formative question every student answers in the moment. Then pivot the lesson.

Two, run a review game. Pull the class stats and reteach only where they're weak. Let them watch you use the data and tell them to use their own when they're reviewing.

Three, pre-assess five vocabulary words you'll use in class today. Don't take a grade, but it does show them what matters and get class started.

Let's think about assessment.

Announcer: This is the 10 Minute Teacher Podcast with your host, Vicki Davis.

Vicki Davis: Today, we're talking with a longtime friend, Starr Sackstein. She has been on the show three times already. This is her fourth appearance. She's educator, author, speaker, and she is one of the most passionate voices in assessment reform. She's written numerous books on rethinking grading, including her newest, Actionable Assessment, co-authored with Michael McDowell.

She spent over two decades helping teachers move from traditional grading to meaningful feedback that actually drives learning. Starr, you and I were talking in the pre-show. I started blogging in 2005. When did you start blogging?

Starr Sackstein: Probably around 2008. And then I was lucky enough to blog for Ed Week a little bit thereafter. That was a game changer, for sure.

Vicki Davis: You've spent so much time in the classroom, and now you're talking about actionable assessment. So this is really interesting, because you're like, hey, when we think assessment, we think grades. But I know you — you're not a fan of grades. So help me understand: what's actionable assessment?

Starr Sackstein: So Michael and I both agree that teachers are super good at collecting data. And unfortunately, they don't always know what to do with it when they have it. And sometimes the quality of what they're collecting isn't as good as it can be. So this book really lays a foundation in what formative assessment really is and how it is different than summative. Those are terms we throw around an awful lot, but I'm still convinced not everybody really knows what they mean.

Vicki Davis: Let's define it. Define clearly, for everybody who's a beginner or wants to explain it to another teacher: formative and summative.

Starr Sackstein: So formative assessment is more of a process. Sure, there are intermediary tasks and people have their formative benchmarks. Like, as soon as you put a grade, though, on something, it is no longer formative. Formative is supposed to be practice. It's supposed to be getting data to the learner, to the teacher, so that adjustments can be made and practice can be continued until they're ready for the summative, which is when we check for what they got from all of it.

And that's really an endpoint. And I'm not saying that you can't take data from summative and use it again in the future, but the purpose of it is really assessment of learning — things that have already happened. Formative is assessment for learning. The preposition in the middle there is what changes the meaning of all of it.

As I've really lived in this assessment work for such a long time now, I believe assessment is learning. Like, anytime we are watching kids learn, anytime we're taking in new stuff, learning is occurring. And I think too often we think about them in moments instead of this ongoing process where we're teaching kiddos to set goals, to track their progress, to deal with not having things right right away — because the stickier and the harder things we are learning, the more likely it is we're not going to get it on the first try. And we need to normalize that a bunch more than we actually do in school.

If we could take the grade away from the formative parts of what we do, the fear of being wrong and the fear of engaging will be a lot less. And so this book, which is super practical — you have a short two chapters that basically give you the foundational work that help you understand how we're using the terminology. And then the whole rest of the book is: at the beginning of the lesson, when you find out this, these are strategies you can use right in the moment to make changes, so that you don't spend a whole 40 minutes on a lesson that isn't going to get you the results that you think you need. And sometimes that information comes in the middle of the lesson. Sometimes it comes at the end.

And what's really different about this book is we also have a lot of graphics, so that if you're working with a PLC, it actually helps you visualize what this looks like when kids are at different phases in the learning too. So it breaks down kids who are at proficiency, kids who are approaching it, kids that are already past it, how you could extend the learning so that that rich data that you're collecting in class really goes to good use.

Vicki Davis: Okay, so there's so much to unpack here. Let's kind of start with the beginning of class. So you've probably read the book Small Teaching by James Lang. And one of his biggest things was: ask five questions that you're not expecting them to know at the beginning of class and see what they already know. And that that primes the pump for learning, because they know, hey, this is what we're going to learn about in class so that I can answer these questions. Right?

And when I started doing that in my AP CSP class — I read that during my first class, which, you know, had 100% pass rate that first year while I was still learning. And I think a lot of it had to do with that method, right, of doing that. It was like, you mean I'm supposed to ask them stuff that they don't know, to see if they know it or see if they don't? And the first thing my kids asked, of course, was, are you taking a grade on this? No. I explained to my students, this is formative assessment. So they know when I say formative, that's testing — like, in some ways I feel like it's testing me. They can relax and just like, hey, what have we learned?

So what is one of the most surprising assessment methods that you recommend, that teachers come back to you and say, I had no idea that would be so awesome?

Starr Sackstein: I think we lean in a lot to things like four corners activities and different things that mix modalities, so that you're not using the same stuff all the time. You're getting kids out of their seats. You're getting them to, like — kind of like what you said before — you're getting them to think about what they think. And using activities like that in different parts of a lesson, you could activate a lot of different things as a pre-assessment. What do they know? What are their feelings? How does this get them primed to go deeper and to test what's going on for them at the beginning? It could be in the middle.

Vicki Davis: Okay, so let's talk about four corners for a second, because honestly — so I've been teaching 24 years, and I didn't learn this technique until like eight or nine years ago. So describe what that is, because it is really great.

Starr Sackstein: It's one of my absolute favorites. I love to do it with adult learners, also in PDs that I do, because adult learners need to learn the same way kid learners need to learn — like multimodalities, not sitting and getting.

Four Corners is: you have different statements. You have four different spots in the room. You could do it a dozen different ways. We actually have tons of different models for how you could do it, even in a math class. The most typical way is agree, disagree, strongly agree, strongly disagree. Make a statement, have them think about where they belong in the room — not watching their friends and deciding where to go based on where their friends go — because they do have to defend why they've gone where they have gone. And then you have them discuss and share out. And then in some circumstances, after they hear all of the justifications, you might ask them if they want to switch where they are in the room based on the justification of others.

I've seen English teachers use it with characterization. Like, you could do it by a specific kind of topic. In science, you could do it where you're thinking about — you have a question and you have like multiple choice answers around the room. Like, where do you find yourself in answering this question based on the data you collected in your lab? And same with math, thinking about different ways to move it around.

So it's really just this great kid-to-kid discussion tool where they have to first think, have a lot of conversation, and then move. You have the movement, you have the discussion, and then you could get some writing pieces out. I've seen folks use like Post-it notes so that certain people don't monopolize conversation too. And the teachers collect the Post-it notes, so that once your Post-it note is collected, you can't speak again until everyone else's Post-it notes. So it's an easy way to collect who's done talking already and who still needs to talk, in order to have that equity of voice in the classroom.

Vicki Davis: And see, you combine so many different things, because you can use the Post-it note example with just about any class conversation. Help it include all the voices. And then some students, they're so observant, and watchers — but if they know that they need the answer to be part of class that day, they will speak up. And then it like changes everything, and you're thinking, why doesn't this student speak more? They just have such good things to say.

So that is an awesome strategy. And that's been around a while, hadn't it?

Starr Sackstein: It sure has. It always baffles me a little bit how many folks don't use it.

Vicki Davis: Everybody's looking for the new thing, you know? And sometimes these timeless things that have been around forever — are there any other timeless things in the book that you're like, hey, this may have been around for 50 years, but it's pretty doggone good?

Starr Sackstein: Yeah, I mean, honestly, I just opened up to like a random chart that we have. Some of the stuff on here is just so evergreen. Think, pair, share. Whiteboard responses. Reading records. And stuff like this was for data outputs for different kinds of sometimes ineffective versus effective assessments that we do in class. So it names a lot of those things, and then it gives different scenarios of what teachers might do, what it looks like, the data you collect, and then how you use such things.

Those of you who see the little — our little teacher over here — it could be just about anybody. And then throughout the whole thing, the middle section is just all pictures. And there's reflection phases, quick poll examples, informal discussions.

Vicki Davis: So let's ask this question then. You talked about effective and ineffective. What are some of the biggest mistakes that people make, and you're like, oh, this would be really good to kind of move out of the classroom?

Starr Sackstein: A lot of times we get very attached to things that we do and we love, as educators. Sometimes I was definitely guilty of that too, when I thought something was awesome and it wasn't necessarily best for kids. And sometimes they're not even aligned to the standards or anything that we're actually trying to assess. I think the biggest challenge generally is that our assessments don't always match what we're trying to assess.

My very first few projects, for example — I had ideas. I didn't even think about the standards. I just thought about the things that I wanted them to do. And when I asked kids to think about their own learning, and even in what I got from them, everybody's interpretation of my directions were so very different that my lack of clarity created this amorphous blob of information that came back at me.

Because I think as a teacher, we're inclined to blame the kids for not doing what we asked them to do. But when you have that many kids not doing what you asked them to do, there's clearly an issue on your side, not their side. Like, the only kids who really got it were the ones who came for extra help, who I had an opportunity to like talk them through what was going on inside my brain — because it was evident, but it was not a good, it was not well designed.

So like the situation — what I learned then was how important to bring reflection, metacognition, into this. Tell me about your learning experience throughout that. And those were as important for kids as they were for me, because it kept me honest.

Vicki Davis: Sometimes you do get a hard class. You know, I was talking to somebody the other day and I said, just because you have a hard class doesn't mean you're a bad teacher. Right? Because sometimes you just have a hard class, right? And you have to shift some things you do. And so sometimes these assessments look a little different depending on the class. You might have a group of rough and tumble boys, and you might be doing more stuff in the corner, except certain ones of them can't go in the same corner. Right? You're like, you two got to always disagree. I've had that before.

But you know, assessment is so important, and it doesn't always mean you're taking a grade. What's one encouragement that you can give to teachers as we finish up, as they look at their assessments for the week this week?

Starr Sackstein: I'd say be super intentional about the assessments that you're doing. Think more of it like a process and not like an end result necessarily — unless of course it's summative that you're working on. And don't be afraid to ask your kids for feedback on them. Too often we keep the separation between teacher stuff and student stuff. And I think that the more we could think of a classroom as a partnership of learning, and less about I'm in charge, you're doing what I tell you to do — like, that power dynamic kind of shifts, the more equitable that space is really going to feel for the kiddos. And they might invest a little bit more if what they're telling you actually impacts what you're doing.

You're looking at your assessments — think, is this going to help each child in my room become a little bit better than they were before, based on the things that we're learning?

Vicki Davis: Today, we've been talking with Starr Sackstein. She has written so many books, and her newest is Actionable Assessment, co-authored with Michael McDowell. And just a great topic here. Assessment's always something we're discussing, and lots of resources online that Starr has. So take a look and take advantage of those, and buy the book. So thanks, Starr, for coming on the show.

Starr Sackstein: Thank you for having me, Vicki.

Vicki Davis: Thanks for tuning in to the 10 Minute Teacher Podcast. Watch the video version of this podcast and catch my new radio and TV show, Cool Cat Teacher Talk, on YouTube and a radio or TV station near you. Join my Cool Cat Teacher Classroom Matters newsletter at coolcatteacher.com forward slash newsletter. Leave a review if you found this helpful. See you later, educator.

Disclosure of Material Connection: This episode includes some affiliate links. This means that if you choose to buy I will be paid a commission on the affiliate program. However, this is at no additional cost to you. Regardless, I only recommend products or services I believe will be good for my readers and are from companies I can recommend. I am disclosing this in accordance with the Federal Trade Commission's 16 CFR, Part 255: “Guides Concerning the Use of Endorsements and Testimonials in Advertising.” This company has no impact on the editorial content of the show.

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